With maid cafes where pretty young girls that ooze submissiveness to their “masters”, and “shuccho health” (出張ヘルス, basically, dial-a-prostitute) and soap-lands (sensual bathing houses with soapy special service) to vending machines for porn, and specialty shops with used high school girl underwear; Japan, at least on the surface appears one of the most sexually proactive nations in the world. Japanese men are as perverted (if not more perverted) than those in other countries, and as for the ladies, on top of being naturally feminine (with petite sexy bodies, skin that doesn’t seem to change complexion from childhood, pretty faces and silky black hair), the women of Japan have no misconceptions about what style – clothes, perfume and make up – makes a man stop in his tracks, and rouse that tingle in his loins.
When interacting with others, sex and everything surrounding it is fair game for a topic of conversation in Japan and, it is certainly not frowned upon by religious groups or society at large as it is in the USA and other countries. When it comes to secreting sexual hormones and sexuality in general, almost nothing is taboo in Japan – until that is, the day one gets married, or so it seems. Indeed in stark sexual contrast, Japan may be suffering from a sexual drought, where being totally open about sex and being sexy in general, doesn’t seem to be converted into the ins-and-outs of baby making when it comes to married couples.
Shown in these statistics, a recent survey by Japan’s health ministry found that as many as one-third of all marriages in Japan are sexless. The problem is now so widespread that the government fears it is a major contributor to the dramatic plunge in Japan’s birthrate (now only 1.28 births per woman). This sexless phenomenon is not only found in those relationships that are plunging down the drain toward divorce, but to the contrary, more and more couples that consider themselves healthily married (and have no intention of separating), have not had sex with each other in the last month or more (the common definition of “sexless” in Japan), with many saying that they have not had sex together in the last 6 months to one year.
According to the most recent survey of 41 nations last October, the average Japanese has intercourse 45 (and according to Bayer Pharmaceuticals as low as 17) times a year, compared with the global average of 103. Japan is repeatedly at the bottom of the list. Last year it trailed Singapore, which was 28 shags a year higher!
The term “sexless”, was first used in Japan in the early 1990s, but now is instantly recognizable to the Japanese as a universally understood concept, and widely discussed in the media. There are books on the subject and thousands websites and heartbreaking blogs discussing sexless Japan, while letters on the subject fill agony columns on “dear doctor”-type sites.
One in five sexless couples say they view sex simply as a nuisance. A small number cite the lack of a private space, because children or elderly parents often sleep just the other side of a paper-thin door, leading many married couples to even sleep in separate rooms. Mitsui Home announced recently in an Asahi Newspaper article, that in 30% of the new houses they build, the couples are asking for 2 “master” bedrooms. This is a shocking statistic, which shows that sexless couples want to continue living their lives together – separately! “We are sort of room-mates rather than a married couple”, one 31-year-old man, who had not had sex with his wife for two years, told the Asahi Shinbun.
There are many other theories about why the Japanese become less inclined to raunchy evenings in the sack together, but likely it is a mixture of some of these:
- Stress of work/life in Japan (maybe the taihen cloud?)
- Lack of understanding, and usage of contraception, especially “the pill” (who wants to use condoms with their wife!?), making sex with your wife viable only when you want to have a baby
- Abundance of 不倫 (furin, or extra-marital) relationships
- More and more Japanese women choosing career over family
- A tendency among Japanese married couples to feel an aversion to sex with their spouse, not because they dislike one another, but rather because they feel that they have more of a sister-brother relationship; the sanctity of which would be destroyed with a repulsive incest-like feeling, by what westerners would consider normal conjugal relations
The last point is an interesting one, as in the past, it has been traditionally Japanese women who complained that they couldn’t see their hubby “as a member of the opposite sex.” But in the last few years, there’s been an exponential increase in men who can’t view their wives as sexual partners either. While it is true that many Japanese married couples seem to be sexless in nature, they key thing to remember is that this certainly does not mean that they lack the desire for sexual fulfillment. While marriage and children may bring on a sex drought in the home, Japanese people who want (and in the case of most men, need) sex do not simply abstain from sex because they cannot see the feminine qualities in their own wife, or the sexual attraction of their hard working husband.
Japanese men love their companies; they live for work, and many don’t even think it is a problem if they don’t have sex with their wives. They have pornography and the sex industry (soap lands, cabaret bars, and dial-a-girl services, and trips to Taiwan) to take care of their needs, but their wives have nowhere to go. They just suffer in silence.. or do they? The divorce rate in Japan has nearly doubled in the past 10 years, with more women blaming their sexually inactive, as opposed to sexually errant, husbands for break-ups. Though they may not be seeking sexual pleasure from their better halves, married Japanese women are seeking intimacy from other sources (many even claim to have a sex addiction), leading double lives – being the good mother, while at the same time seeking out “Leroy” the lover, who is always lurking, and ready to fulfill her every desire.
Japan is full of temptation, and it doesn’t matter whether you are a housewife or salary-man, there is plenty of raunchy action waiting out there – if that is what you desire. Furin sites to find a (extra marital) “sex friend” partner are just as rampant in Japan as in other countries, however they are much more widely used by women in Japan to solve their sexless quandaries. For the more conservative ladies, sites like mixi.jp – which are neutrally classed as “social networking” spaces – are abound with profiles (men and women) looking for partners to secretly spruce up their sexless, but otherwise happily married lives.
Many Japanese marriages may be sexless, but this is only a statistic about the state of sex within marriage itself. In fact, there may be a good reason for the sexless condition of marriages here – Are the Japanese getting enough of the good stuff outside their marriages to keep them happy? I certainly think so.
Japanese people will never be sexless as individuals; therefore Japan is not sexless, so don’t let mere statistics confuse the situation!
(If you are married in Japan, or married to a Japanese, let us know what you think of “Sexless Japan” by leaving a comment below!)
Doug – the details of your wife’s personality and situation are eerily similar to mine. We married in Japan 17 years ago, have 2 kids, live in California now. Never contemplated divorce because we get along well (although we are almost always in separate rooms as you describe and mostly just we discuss the kids/schedules), she’s a great cook/housekeeper, etc. I’m slightly older than you so due to declining testosterone level plus fatigue from dealing with kids, I’m not jonezing for sex as much as I was in earlier years. But I still desire her and here’s what works for us – about every two weeks I literally make an appointment for sex. (Once a week would be nice but it’s not realistic). I give her a couple days leadtime and let her choose the day. If I see she’s wiped out that night I’ll givea 24 hour repreive but never complete clemency. So when the sex finally takes place, it’s reasonably hot – no toys or lingerie sadly, but definitely she’s a willing participant. A few years back I used to “force the issue” 1-2 times per week and if she didn’t flat out refuse, I’d get a dead fish. I’ve realized that that quality trumps quantity. The funny thing is that since it’s on my calendar, I look forward to as much as I would a date with a hot chick when I was single. Take it easy.
When I lived in Japan I would meet foreign men who had recently returned to Japan with their Japanese wives. They all said the same thing, “We came back to give our marriage a second chance.” I thought they were lying as they seemed to me to return so they could bone other Japanese women but after almost 5 years back in the States after many years of marriage in Japan I am beginning to see things differently: it seems to makes less and less sense to be married to a Japanese woman here. I meet women here I have so much more in common with, who are so much easier to talk with … and who find me attractive.
I can see my future: “I came back to give my marriage a second chance.”
Kayumochi,
The mentality is, “It will get better when _______ “.
It will get better when we move back to Japan.
It will get better when we buy a house.
It will get better when we have more money.
It will get better when I lose enough weight.
Folks, I am here to tell you… IT NEVER GETS BETTER WHEN!
My current non-Japanese girlfriend cannot get enough of me, and if I am too tired to take care of business at night, she wakes me up promptly at 6 am gets the day started just right.
Japanese women are ideal wives for Japanese men and men who have little or no sex drive.
Thanks for the idea dude. I have read about that one before. As of right now it’s going good enough that I suppose I can’t complain, but I guess I lament the fact that she is so passive and uncomfortable with her body. I had the mistaken belief that Japan, due to not being a prudish country, would be more open to sex etc. For some Japanese women, I imagine that’s true, but not her. Recently I read over 50% of women use vibrators. Yet she won’t go near one. She doesn’t initiate anything in bed. I’m always, and I mean always the one to change positions etc.
In the end, I make the best of it, and it’s good, but it’s still pretty boring overall. And those are the good times. When she gets a chip on her shoulder and withholds sex, well, that’s another story.
I think in some of the recent posts there is an element of blaming the woman for being sex-negative, and I don’t think that’s fair. They are the way they are because society made them that way, there’s no point getting mad at them about that. And given that they were that way all along (ie, before any marriage), it’s doubly unfair.
Misdirected anger is only going to get in the way of working through the situation. Sure, they are causing you frustration, but the reality is that they are in a far worse situation than you, they just don’t know it. They don’t like sex because they’ve never had good sex. That’s truly sad.
James, just wonder how old you are, because you sound like you just graduated or are in college based on your comment, “They are the way they are because society made them that way” and “they are in a far worse situation than you, they just don’t know it.”
I’m old enough to know what I’m talking about, not that age has any bearing on the validity of what I said. More to the point I’ve been in a relationship with a woman just like your wife and I’ve thought the same thoughts that you are thinking. And I agree that the situation sucks. But it’s not all the woman’s fault. She was brought up to be the way she is. And no doubt the way you treat her also influences her behaviour.
Hey James, “she is the way she is” is a fallacy for those whose wives were hot and horny during the courtship/dating. I think it’s a conscious decision for a Japanese woman to sublimate her sexual desire after marriage and especially after children. Your girlfriend wasn’t much of a sexual being to start with, so “she is the way she is” makes more sense in your case. Apparently you didn’t like that “way” and you made a choice to end the relationship. Most of us visiting this forum fell in love with women who were wild in bed before marriage and got the old bait and switch. We definitely didn’t change anything about the way we treat them. They knew what they were getting into, but we didn’t. In my case, after 17 years of marriage and 2 kids my wife and I have made some compromises and things are good enough. For other guys whose wives are more stubborn, you have my empathy.
Dude
James,
I disagree with your statements. Further, I was married with a Japanese woman for 13 years so I speak from experience.
You wrote, ” And given that they were that way all along (ie, before any marriage), it’s doubly unfair.”
Before I was married to my lovely ex-bride, we had sex quite frequently. After marriage, that all stopped. When I asked WHY she never told me that she had zero interest in sex, she said, “I knew that if I didn’t have sex with you, you would leave me.”
But once she married me and had a child with me, she was confident I would never divorce her.
She was wrong.
James wrote, “I’m old enough to know what I’m talking about, not that age has any bearing on the validity of what I said.”
Well James, when my 8 year old tells me that there can be world peace if we all just hold hands I don’t doubt that she thinks she knows what she’s talking about either, so you’ll excuse me if your statements come across like an over-eager college student who has taken one too many female studies courses.
Now that you’ve clarified that you’ve been in a similar situation, that changes things. Although it seems to me like you aren’t talking about a Japanese woman you were with. And since this is a Japanese forum after all, I’m not sure how relevant your “insights” are here.
Even disregarding your cultural analysis of the situation, judging by the previous posters situation as well as my own, sex BEFORE marriage was far different than later on. And there is no mention of anger towards the wife, but rather a disappointment with the end result.
married and no sex , just sleep
To commemorate the fact that our most popular article on stippy.com the truth behind “Sexless Japan” has received a whopping 500+ comments and more traffic than any other article we have written, we’ve decided to research for a follow-up article – and we need your help to make it an insightful one!
We have tracked down a local marriage/sex counselor. She (yes! she) is Japanese but foreign educated and – get this – specializes in sexless marriages!! We are pretty excited. But before the interview (which is next Wednesday, June 16th 2010) we need your questions, so that we have a full list of topics which our readership needs answered! Hurry, visit the article, and leave your questions there! Here is the link:
http://www.stippy.com/japan-culture/sexless-followup-we-need-your-help-to-interview-japanese-sex-counselor/
First of all, thanks to everyone who commented. It’s been very insightful. But I am wondering about the classification of regular sex, sexlessness, etc. I have been going out with a Japanese girl for 3 years now and will get married soon. And we have a lot of sex! You wouldn’t believe me if I told you. Never had so much sex with anyone from any country (and I’ve tried a few). It’s very interesting what you guys have to say, but I think it would be easier to understand, if you could specify how much sex is no sex. Is it 3 or 4 times a day, once a day, once a week, once a month?
Hmm,..I think I have a very good relationship and incredible (monogamous) sex life. A bit worried about some of the posts on this page, though. Some of you say that you had incredible sex lives with your partner before marriage. How incredible? numbers help (forgive me, I’m an engineer). I have talked to my girlfriend about how married life might suck as we might not have as much sex. And we are resigned to the fact that it might be true but we can’t even imagine having sex less than 2 times a day (morning & night). And I believe her. Am I being totally naive? What possible cultural or social reason could she have? I have not felt any pressure from her to get married and she is turning 25 next year. I am aware that there is a slight cultural tendency for girls to be sexually conservative. i.e. respectable girls=good family background=less sex. But this was easily cured with a couple of weeks of sex when we started going out.
The cynicism is so thick, taking a bite of it could give me a heart attack!!
So, from what I gather, the general trend of Japanese Women is that none of them really aspire for anything (Citing, “I want to be a grandmother!”), they don’t really know how to improve the human condition, they see no need for constant self-improvement or self-growth, they get what they want from men, then callously kick the men to the curb as their whipped others cling for dear life to her like she’s a mother, and so perpetuates the cycle.
How dismal. How disappointing. And here I understood Buddhism (indirectly referring to the Japanese, as being primarily Buddhist) was about “breaking the cycle of suffering.” Maybe I can bring that point up and call out a Yamato-Nadeshiko on her bullshit by pulling that card on her.
So screwed up!! The boisterous western man in me wants to bust in, sweep her away, and re-educate her on how to enjoy life! The more patient side, however, remembers what… wow it’s too far up for me to scroll, mitaboy said it, maybe? “You can only coach the willing?”
As I chipped away at the rough of this forum, I managed to mine a few gems, which could ease this cynicism. One being that what’s important is the never-ceasing quest for self-improvement, and how that drive for the “Cultivated More,” or the enrichment of the human experience must be present in both partners. I make it a point to Love what I do, Live in what I do, and Learn in everything I do, and that I stop when I die. Looking at it from a certain perspective, we as humans no longer have the potential to love, learn, and live when we inevitably stop breathing. If we do not live, love, and learn (and all the while, laugh!) then are we not emulating death? We would be, as my good idol Kenshiro always said, “Already dead” (“mo shinde iru”) (sans the exploding heads).
I digress, where was I going with that? Oh yeah! The Japanese Women. Is it hard to find such women with a vivaciousness and lust for life itself? Ones that want more for themselves than to satisfy their egos? Ones that have a curiosity for everything around them that cannot be quenched (especially with sex!)? From what I have studied about Japanese culture so far, PROBABLY NOT! They consider any form of openness to be aberrant behavior!!
Something is definitely not right!! The sex is amazing for the first few years? Then goes away? If it’s amazing, it means that they DO know how to enjoy themselves, and they DO know how to please… but later on CHOOSE not to!! From what everyone has said, it seems that these women sure enjoyed trying to get arousal from a man! But then, if it all went away, wouldn’t that be dishonest? And isn’t honesty the (intended) basis for marriage? This sounds almost as bad as walking in on your fiancee cheating on you– on your wedding day!! To learn that all of it was a lie… yikes!
Yes, I find Japanese women alluring, just because I find them to be beautiful. I can’t really say why, but I find them to be aesthetically pleasing.
I’d really like to have the experience of dating a Japanese. If I cannot love it, or live it, then at least, I’d like to learn it.
Should I bother? Or, would I be better off finding a westernized Japanese? Or am I really better off with a future staring stoically into the evening twilight, alone, lamenting my success as a lonely bachelor?
@ShedTheGreen
I once had sex with a Japanese woman who was engaged to be married. She was breathtakingly beautiful. The man she was engaged to and later married was what an average Japanese woman considers “a catch”: stolid of average looks and with a secure job. She on the other hand had a certain elan, a joie de vivre. When I pointed out the difference between the two to her, she shrugged her shoulders and said something about they were both going to get old anyway so what did it matter. Practicality and not making sense of life (and certainly not honesty) tops the concerns of a Japanese woman.
ShedtheGreen:
You asked, “Should I bother?”
DATE a Japanese woman, and have a wonderful romantic time.
DO NOT EVER MARRY A JAPANESE WOMAN! Dating and marriage are different.
Dating is fun and romantic and full of life.
Marriage is lifeless and waiting for death.
As long as you keep this mantra in your head, you will be finer than a frog hair.
Forget my wisdom, and you will pay dearly.
As an aside, I’d advise you have your Japanese frolic (get it out of your system), then find a nice Brazilian, Colombian or Polish woman.
I’m interested to read the follow up article with advice from a marriage counsellor. I really hope it’ll go some way to showing up the ridiculous statements these comments are full of.
Things like “Never marry a Japanese women”… I’m sure there is some truth that more than a few Japanese women regard sex as unimportant or change after marriage (as happens in many other countries too), but regardless of your personal experiences, there’s no need for such brutally generalised and culturally insensitive remarks.
@heinrich
I was always from the school of thought that dating and marriage are indistinguishable save for two features:
1) The consolidation of assets for a joint investment/venture, which leads to
2) The legitimization of children (which ARE the investment).
Investment of what? Well, there’s only so much a single person, or pair for that matter, can do to improve the human condition, why not ensure that someone can pass the torch on to both continue that work, and simultaneously putting someone right-hearted on this planet? Okay, given, raising children is a gamble. But, citing kayumochi’s expression, I have a certain Joie de Vivre that I want to enjoy sharing with someone, and likewise have their experience from the same premise of such a demeanor to be shared with me.
Going off on a tangent, then bringing it back, I learned that love is very much like best-case-scenario capitalism: You build your credit and assets, then invest for greater return, and repeat the process. Share these assets in a joint venture for an even greater return yet! Never invest while in debt, because then you will be scrambling to fill a void borne from one’s initial bad decisions. Never deal in debt, or others will be dragged down when you fail to deliver. Too many people being dragged down in debt causes an entire market to crash.
The Joie de Vivre is especially a must when it comes to ANY woman I date (preferably for a potential mate!), but of course, basic personality constructs would have to be compatible with my own, too. If I see these qualities as an asset, and abundance, that the Japanese woman has, and is willing to share, give freely to me, and co-invest this love for the purpose of enriching life, you’d damn well believe I’d pursue.
Metaphorically speaking, why typify ALL Japanese Women as holding and dealing only in ‘debt’ when it comes to their capacity of what they can offer in a relationship? Wouldn’t that just be blatant racism? Given, even with your experiences, you hold merit in what you share. But, I still wish I had temporary administrative access just so that I can put a disclaimer to your words, Heinrich, adding “Do what you’ve always done, get what you always get.” You really haven’t given any indication that you’ve changed your method, or yourself for that matter, in how you went about pursuing the affections of Japanese Women, for sake of trying to make something work. And by this, I mean before the fact, not after the fact, where expectations are already cemented in a spouse’s head as to what kind of life to expect.
Part of me DOES in fact heed the words of yours, Heinrich, in that I am now more alert to the social imagination as it pertains to Japanese Women. Such a terrible condition! But if anything, I am more inclined to use this new-found insight as a filter by which I could separate the chaff from the wheat, so to speak (in this case, the rice from the stalk?). Now that I have your input, I want to hear from the others of this page to see what their experiences say as to exactly what kind of capacity Japanese women differ from one another.
I am sure there is a way to psychologically profile these “typical” Japanese dead-fish types, but by that same token, logic says that there would be, in this case, a way to tell if any one of them stands out (or wants to, for that matter!).
In closing on this statement, wisdom is invaluable when exercising discernment in any relationship, Japanese or otherwise (I speak from experience, of almost taking the wrong woman to the altar!). As long as my characteristic for self-improvement and love of life is mirrored, even improved upon, by a Japanese woman, then the enriching experience is what counts. At least, for me 🙂
Green – nevermind the sex, I recommend you do not marry a Japanese women because I’ve never met one that thinks so deeply as you. But that’s another subject …
I take that back. You sound like an enlightened, spiritual young man and I was being unnecessarily cynical. With your positive outlook you will find a soulmate who shares your zest for life and focus on self improvement … and there’s no reason she can’t be Japanese. Shine on!
@Dude
Thank you for your words of encouragement! I wish you well in your endeavors, as well. My experiences of reading this page conjures up something I read a while ago:
“Man has three ways of acting wisely: Firstly, on Meditation, This is the Noblest; Secondly, on Imitation, This is the easiest; and Thirdly, on Experience: This is the bitterest.” – Confucius
While I proudly tout that I spend ample time in contemplation and reflection of my life condition, I still make it a point to let others know that I also take the time to study others. Experiences have their part, but then again, “The voice of reason need not be so shrill.” (No need to stick your hand in fire to know that it burns.)
I truly mean to express that all those who have read this page, and those who will read this in the future will find what they are looking for, particularly with Japanese women.
Whatever may come, may the factors of their society evolve for the betterment and enrichment of their lives.
Thanks, Dude, I will shine on. Feel free to light your candle here if it behooves you. ^_^
Hi everyone, just a reminder, we interview the Japanese sex counsellor next week Wednesday, Japan time, which means you need to get us your questions for her by Tuesday for most of the rest of the world. If you have anything interesting to ask, visit the link below, and leave your questions there in the comments!
http://www.stippy.com/japan-culture/sexless-followup-we-need-your-help-to-interview-japanese-sex-counselor/
Married 8 years, sexless for 6. Addicted to sex with cheap Chinese whores who, it must be said, are adept at making me feel happier and more appreciated in our few minutes together than my workshy, whinging spouse, who occasionally tosses out a megaton threat to return to Japan with our child and cut me out of his life. Desperately wanted to believe that it was not a cultural thing but my wife’s particular baggage. Now I’m not so sure.
It keeps on going & going & going… This thread, I mean. It really is amazing! I posted a few times here 3 years ago, from 30 March 2007 (Post# 30) to 26 July 2007 (Post# 127), then left one brief comment a few months ago on 19 January 2010 (Post# 479), but I have continually come back and read the others’ posts. Sorry I didn’t get back soon after January to give an update, as I had promised, but I’m sure you understand that one has got to be in the right sort of mood to write about these things. I add a bit now, though I don’t have time at the moment to write much.
I’m looking forward to seeing something posted about that interview with a Japanese “sexless counselor”, but after reading the questions that were submitted, it seems that others covered the bases well. I would, however, have liked to ask about attitudes towards affairs in this context. I don’t mean whether or not the intimacy-starved spouse is justified in having an affair. (Please note that when I use the term “intimacy”, I am talking at least a as much about emotional intimacy as physical. Of course, I include open, honest communication as part of that, as well as verbal affection, physical affection, and sex.) When I mention attitudes towards affairs here, I’m thinking of those who deny intimacy to their own spouses while putting little to no effort into trying to learn anything more than they believe they already “know” and to make things better, but who nevertheless seem to fall easily into an intimate relationship with someone else. I’m sorry to say this — very, very sorry — but I am talking about someone like my own, dear wife.
Just over 2 years ago, after I spent the couple years or more before that trying to do everything I could to get our relationship back on track — and a just a few months following the Christmas when she wrote to me, telling me how much she appreciated me trying so hard for so long, and apologizing for not trying herself, but promising that the new year, 2008, would be different — I logged into my home computer just before leaving my office to back up some files. I had just set up the screen sharing, which I had never used before, I clicked on that to run a program not he home computer. I was, however, surprised to see the email program open. Thinking I must have left it open, I was about to quit it, when I realized that someone was writing at that moment. It was a moment before I realized that I was viewing my wife’s account, not mine, but by then, I had already caught a glimpse of what she was writing about…
She was writing to her “lover”. He was Korean — yes, my wife had caught the “Korean wave” like a lot of other Japanese women her age (and older!). She had a good friend here who was Korean, a woman, who had moved back to Seoul about 6 months earlier. My wife had gone to visit her 2 months before my discovery, and while there, had met this man. According to her, after that, they just started corresponding as friends by email, but within a few weeks, after phone calls as well, it grew into something more. When I discovered this, they had never been physical, but I watched as my wife wrote to him about his upcoming visit in less than 2 months. She wrote how she could feel his heart for her, and how she hoped he could feel here. She said how she hoped that when they meet, they could do so “as lovers”, and that she could seem shy then, but if he takes the lead, she will be happy “to follow”. She also told him how she had been able to leave work early that day and check out hotels near her office that were “close but not too close”. She wrote how we don’t have “love hotels” in America, wondering if South Korea has them. She couldn’t wait until July, when he would visit. She signed her email with what I later learned are the Korean words for love.
I’ll have to fill you in on more later, but for now, I will just tell you that I ended up offering her forgiveness, if she would, of course, break off contact with him and truly focusing on our marriage, on at least trying to “rediscover” her love for me — romantic, passionate love. She agreed, and the pattern of the past 2 years became set, a pattern that is too much like the old one… Give just enough to keep hope alive in me,…Then start lowering it down little by little till she goes below the minimum to keep be placated. Finally, I reach a point where I had enough. We talk. She renews her promises. I have hope once again. Then,…
Over the past few years, I have read and learned so much that I didn’t know before — or that I sort of knew, but I didn’t know how it might apply to my wife and me. Over these past 2 years, she has resisted even trying to learn more about love and relationships. We tried counseling after she resisted that tooth & nail, but even once she agreed, she seemed to view it as a big favor for me — not something for “us”. On the way to our first appointment, she said, “I hope you don’t expect me to say anything.” She also made it clear that if I mentioned her affair (her “emotional affair”), she would not go back to counseling at all. I took a gentle approach to that — as I’m sure I have too often done — but at the time, it seemed like the best course was to ease off and let her get used to the idea and the experience of counseling. We went for about 6 months, but when our counselor had to change schedules and we couldn’t meet with her at the times available, my wife refused even to consider anyone else.
Man! This is too long! And I’ve got to run! I’ll try to just add one more thing….
I don’t think my wife is a bad person who doesn’t care about hurting me. She has, however, convinced herself that one of our chief problems is that I am “too sensitive”. She might be right at times, but that idea basically gives her an excuse to hurt me since in her mind, the problem isn’t herself, it’s my reactions. But even though that can be true in some circumstances, I think the fundamental problem is that she is emotionally immature and extremely close-minded. That then feeds into her stubbornness. She is not open to new ideas, to learning new things or trying to do things differently. She doesn’t have time for that, she still says — which often seems true, but is what she was telling me while finding time for someone else.
There are some signs that things are looking up lately… but it’s not the first time. If we didn’t have 4 kids, this would have ended a long time ago. I do love her very, very much, and there are many times that we are happy together. Still, she still communicates with me about anything relating to our relationship as little as she can get away with. She thinks I live in the past too much, and just need to move on and forgive –as she has forgiven me for my drinking and such (though I don’t think she really has forgiven me).
I too want to put that affair in the past, but I know that she was not completely honest with me afterwards. Six months after that awful discovery, I discovered that she was using another email account — this during the time when we had agreed that we would each be completely open with each other since repairing trust was so important. I gently asked her if she had another account, then looked into her eyes as she lied to me, angrily denying she had any such thing. When I repeated the email address she had, she apologized and said she was using it only to communicate with her female friend in Seoul because they had long had email problems when she used her regular account. She tearfully apologized and begged me to forgive her, but assured me it was all 100% innocent. I told her I could not forgive her right away and that it would take an even longer time before I could start to trust her again, but I said that I would try — if she would. She swore that that’s what she wanted and that that’s what she would do.
One week after that, after a few days of feeling my hope renewed, she seemed to suddenly slip right back to her old ways. I might be a fool, but I’m not totally foolish, so instead of taking her at her word that everything was fine and that I was just being too sensitive, I checked on her on the computer. I caught her red-handed as she was opening up a new email account with a username that I later realized was Japanese Romaji for “secret”.. Then, I saw her type in an email address, the username for which was the same name as the guy she had supposedly had that relationship with — the “emotional affair” (“never physical”, she insisted) that she had cut off suddenly 6 months earlier… I waited till later that night, then confronted her by first asking her if she had yet another secret account. Again, she looked into my eyes and lied so convincingly that I might have believed her if I had not had hard evidence to the contrary. I responded by sitting down next to her in bed, opening up my laptop so she could see the screen, then writing a letter to that guy, expressing my love, heartbreak, and anger while tears streamed down my face.
She begged me to forgive her again… saying… that she had been planning to tell me all about the new email account, to write it down without he password and to put it in an envelope to give me for Christmas, just a few days away. The guy? Well… she said that it was a different guy, just a co-worker from her company’s Seoul office with whom she and her boss were friendly! She said that she and the guy she had been involved with, who’s name was actually different, had used her co-workers name to help cover up her correspondence with him when she wrote to him at work. She had known her Seaoul colleague for some time, she said, and had always liked his name, a name that was, however, very common in Korea — a sort of Korean “John Smith”.
I gave her another chance….
Sorry, but I’ve got to run! And I’m sorry this is sooooooo long! I’ll add more to this if anyone wants to know. For now, call me a fool, if you like — love often does that to us. With 4 kids, however, so many years invested, and a determination not to let my pride get in the way, I think risking being made the fool again & again was my only choice. Things seem better now, and I do not believe that any sort of affair continues, but…
Oh! And one more thing! I hate K-pop and all those crappy Korean dramas!
I’ve been thinking about this for a while, and what I now realize is that I do not love her, I will never love her, but I am realistic enough to understand that I cannot get divorced due to the kids, and consequently try to make the best of it, by being helpful and nice in order to have the best home life for everyone. And as a guy, I am able to separate love and having sex with my wife no problem. Maybe my wife does not love me, and being a woman, is unable to do that. But we do have sex more than in the past, so maybe it’s just a convenience thing for both of us, and women just want less sex at a certain age regardless.
To sum it up, although I have great kids, a great home, great neighbors and friends and so on, in the end I facked up by marrying this woman. I was too immature and naive to realize this back then, and I’m dealing with the consequences for years afterward. It’s not the end of the world, but it makes me depressed nonetheless. And there’s nothing a counselor can do to resolve this, because ultimately it is I who no longer loves her, and no longer wants to love her.
When I posted earlier, I noticed my stance on the issue as it would pertain to me. I already expressed what kind of measures I would take to keep such a thing from happening to me, by really investigating the content of character for a prospective mate. Yes, I really enjoy emotional maturity in my women, so perhaps I should find one that’s a counselor or psychologist? At least they know what they’re doing. xD
But now, I want to focus on others. Perhaps there is something else that I can offer to others in this page with my view and paradigm.
@kakui
Kakui, remember, “WWKD (What Would Kenshiro Do?)”
Kenshiro would keep his pimphand strong. Be a TOUGHBOYTOUGHBOYTOUGHBOYTOUGHBOY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0umpeN2uJbY
Instead of being “just upset,” start laying down consequences. Let your woman know that you aren’t enacting these consequences because you are mean, but you are doing so to keep yourself protected, and to let her know that she hurt you. Tell her, “You know what? You’re free to flirt with whomever. The choice is yours. But, you have no choice in the consequences. You are married to me… you have a responsibility, to both myself and yourself. Not to mention, the children.” She has to WANT to be happy with you. If she can’t be, then there’s no real way for you to be happy with her. It’s a case where you two have essentially united your assets, liabilities, and character. If she cannot be happy with herself for being with you, then you cannot be happy with yourself for being with her. Who WOULD be happy being with someone who constantly tries to cheat??
Otherwise, “Keep you burning” and stay sensitive, but cry manly tears with a stoic face. Like Ken. http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/cit_FotNS_-_manly_tears.png
Or, What Would Psychiatrist Do? Psychiatrist would pick at her every flaw, and use those as grounds for her hospitalization. If she cannot appreciate the freedom that your love for her brings, show her what lack of freedom in a totalitarian institution is like. Show her that you have invested yourself in her, and like any investment, when there is a failure to deliver, there is a consequence… A non-negotiable consequence. Make her see the folly of not changing facets of her character -for her own sake-. In fact, people who refuse to change in spite of their lives changing around them is a sign of an unstable mind. Remember: Doing the same thing, expecting a different result, is the definition of insanity. This applies to you expecting something different from her without laying down your pimphand, and her expecting something different from her life, without changing (rather, maturing) who she is.
It really is a choice in what makes a person happy. If people want it, they will change… if they are aware of that. It’s not unethical to use a scare tactic so that someone gains awareness. Sages have been doing that to people seeking wisdom since time immemorial!!
“An artist uses lies to paint the truth” – V for Vendetta
I digress. LAY DOWN THE LAW. She is completely within her power to change her definition of happiness. Life is about LEARNING what “happy” is, not DECLARING it! If she “can’t” feel happy being with you, then she doesn’t -want- to be happy with you. Treat the situation as if this was the case, and then things may change…
Moving on, What Would Info-Tech Do? The Info-Tech would justify use of technology to bring her stupidity to light. Incriminate her, time and time again. Hammer the sense of -wrong- in what she’s doing into her very core, and show her how much she is hurting both you and the family. Don’t call her selfish, SHOW her she’s selfish!
If there is no effect, then you need to note something: She doesn’t care if she’s caught. She’s putting up a facade for you. But if that’s the case, you need to ask her, “If you don’t care if you get caught or not, why do you bother trying to pass yourself off as caring?!” Call her out on her inconsistencies. For all you know, she could be lying to herself about something! Whether it could be happy with you, or to be happy with someone else, somehow, somewhere, someway, sometime ago, she has started to lie to herself, and hasn’t stopped.
CALL HER OUT. From what I do with my Japanese friends, they HATE it when they get called out on something. But in doing so, I have brought both me and my friends together, because they know that despite their flaws, I can accept them…
This being said, there are three important things, to summarize:
1) Flaws can be accepted. Lying about them, and the feelings about them, are not.
2) Happiness is a learning process. Learning is about applying changes overtime. No change->no learning->no happiness.
3) Freedom is wonderful. The consequences are not. Awareness gives guidance.
That being said, I’m only going for a Japanese woman who takes her character to her job, as an asset to personal development, like a psychologist or some sort of health worker!
It sucks my marriage is like this initermicy is only a kiss and a hug
then sleep
we have good communication though
Reading the words of all of the delusional individuals above, it makes me cringe to think the writers seem to suggest that sexlessness is a uniquely cultural, and specific to Japan.
Have you read about the prevalence of sexless marriages in North America and Europe? How about the wide spread impotency (physically and mentally) of Western men and the sexually detached women?
As a counselor at a marriage clinic for the past 25 years, Caucasian couples are much more susceptible to sexlessness than East Asian couples (Chinese, Japanese and Korean) at the rate of 3:1. Many signs point to stress and Western diet (high fat and salt content, refined sugars and carbs). However, medical questionnaires seem to prove otherwise; with the majority of Caucasian women citing three major reason:
1. Husband’s lack of desire, premature (under the age of 45) impotency or ED.
2. Lack of pleasure in lovemaking. Lack of fulfillment with partner.
3. Lack of libido in self due to work, home, and family stress.
It’s easy to point at criticize others using simple statistical data, and then use personal rants/bad experience to further “support” the data. That’s classic.
@Catherine
You categorizing us as “delusional individuals” makes me question you “bedside manner” doctor.
mike:
Yes, there is whole page of them who thinks the problem of “sexlessness” is prevalent only in Japan or affect specifically to Japanese men and women. The writers don’t seem to accept that the problem may have to do with the writers (mostly men complaining a lack of sex) themselves. How many of the above think they are hot studs and question their girlfriend/wife for not being “receptive” to their requests? Who to say that the guys aren’t slobs or simply not good lovers themselves? I know, let’s blame my spouse, since he/she is Japanese….isn’t that what the survey say anyway?
Therefore, I stand by my choice of words, delusional individuals.
US national statistics:
15 to 20 percent of couples have sex no more than 10 times a year, which experts define as a sexless marriage. — Newsweek
20 to 30 percent of men and 30 to 50 percent of women say they have little or no sex drive. — USA Today
Married couples say they have sex an average of 68.5 times a year. That’s slightly more than once a week. — Newsweek (that’s lower than Singapore)
Don’t kid yourself, sexless marriage is a WORLD WIDE phenomenon. Please educate yourself.
@Catherine
Did you happen to notice the title of this thread? Do you know the theme of this website? Statistics from the USA aren’t particularly relevant here.
If you have no Japan-related experience Catherine you have little or nothing to add to this discussion. And your name calling isn’t appreciated.
Y’all be postin’ in a troll thread!!
Mike, everyone… you all got trolled by Catherine.
Despite her purported “Professional Standing,” she still didn’t have the capacity to understand that this discussion was -specifically- geared to understanding the sexuality (or in this case, the lack thereof) of Japanese Women in a relationship at a certain stage, while taking the sociocultural pressures they experience into account.
No problem, folks. Either she is a fraud, or just a troll who is butthurt that she found so many non-japanese males who are choosing to date foreign rather than domestic.
Shame on you! A counselor in a marriage clinic for 25 years, and you still couldn’t see the concentration of this thread!! It’s disappointing to know that someone without the ability to properly observe a situation is trying to solve the marriages of conflicting couples. My faith in humanity has just dipped.
Thank you, Catherine. You trolled me, too. I hope you’re happy.
Wow, so many angry men. Angry at women for giving life to them and their greatest joys. Angry because we don’t understand a guy who vomits at baby poop but wants to lick my ass crack? I’m sure if you were nice to your wives, gave a back massage, complimented her beauty and talked dirty in her ear you would find a willing wife in your bed. I know my awesome hubby did last night! Try not being a baby and giving something of yourself to your wife and kids, not just your money, you might find that she not only earns her own paycheck, takes care of you and your kids, but is also a sex goddess in the sack!
@Julia, Catherine or whatever you are calling yourself today,
Had you actually read through this thread you would have discovered actual posts by women who are frustrated with their Japanese husbands.
For goodness sake, “a guy who vomits at baby poop but wants to lick my ass crack”? You hang out with some pretty strange guys Julia. I can see some negative views of men come from. But if you want to criticise the guys who have posted their stories here, you should refer to their stories, and not things that have happened to you in the past.
Catherine – “It’s easy to point at criticize others using simple statistical data, and then use personal rants/bad experience to further ‘support’ the data”. Indeed it is. Please point out how you are doing more than this yourself. It’s pretty funny that you’re telling us to educate ourselve despite displaying absolutely no relevant knowlege yourself.
Everyone knows that sexlessness is not unique to Japan. What you probably won’t know (unless you have actually been in an intimate relationship with a Japanese person) is that Japanese attitudes to sex are very different to Western attitudes. And this can cause big problems in inter-cultural relationships. The opinion I have formed after reading this thread is that no-one knows much about addressing those problems. Even if you forget the complication of the inter-cultural aspect, I don’t think there’s very much useful information available about improving communication about sex.
Japan is full of bitter, unattractive white women with chips on their shoulders. Why they come to Japan is a mystery to me.
To mike who says:
Japan is full of bitter, unattractive white women with chips on their shoulders. Why they come to Japan is a mystery to me.
What about all the ugly white men with a chip on their shoulder such as your prejudiced self?
It works both ways.Why do you come here?
@Catherine/Julia/Susu and whatever you will call yourself in the future –
This thread was free of trolls until you showed up, a thread that has been useful to not a few people in many ways. Please leave.
@mike
>>>>@Catherine/Julia/Susu
=>>>@Troll
Fixed.
Mike
Just eat shit and shut up ; we gaijin women are sick of imbeciles like you in Japan.
Came to this site by chance. Interesting, thought provoking and a often sad read. I have a different take on this and I think Catherine makes an important point: Like her I have difficulties to agree that sexless marriages are specific to Japan and to the Japanese character.
I know, I know, the numbers…. so what’s wrong with the numbers? First of all, Japan is an aging society, by now probably the one with the least young people worldwide. The group of people over 60 is to my knowledge higher than everywhere else. That will make an impression on the statistics. People, not only Japanese, have less frequent sex the older they get. I would consider that as normal. So comparing Japan with for example Thailand which has a much higher percentage of young people will not be conclusive.
Second, people from different societies and cultures will respond different to questionnaires. That’s nothing new, it has been mentioned many times. Just ask an American and a Japanese after foreign language proficiency. Western guys especially tend to inflate their sexual prowess while Japanese may ‘underreport’ it, after all it is a hazukashii subject and really nobodies business to ask.
Third. For most foreigners here Japan is the first and only foreign culture they experience(d) over a longterm period (say 5 years plus). Most foreigners here don’t have long term living experience in other countries/cultures besides their own and Japan. This is why Japan is put on an isolated pedestal. There is simply a lack of context, a lack of experience which makes Japan stick out singularly. If you compare for example the situation of marriage and sex to Thailand, Japan seems like a paradise. I think that the often obsessive focus on the ‘Japaneseness’ of this subject is part of the problem.
Myself? I had 3 long term relationships in Japan and all were very different. This sounds probably patronizing, but from where I sit in my older age some of the problems seem partly a confusion of priorities. If one is in the twenties and thirties there seems no difference between want and need. Most of the guys in above posts write that they ‘need’ sex. Well, there is relief on the horizon: with sixty plus and a fulfilled romantic history I don’t NEED it anymore, I just have sex when I WANT it and with someone I know it will be lovely. That is very attractive to my partners: I am not demanding, no arm-twisting, they are not under duress and can relax – with or without sex. If you run away – they run after you.
Taio – agree 100%
This discussion has depressed me….I feel as though my marriage is not conforming. Yoki and I have been married 2 years, following a 3 year relationship, sex life has not changed a bit from before, and is plentiful and fun, possibly more than I can handle (although Yoko is probably more passive in her approach than my previous 6 or 7 nationalities). Perhaps the difference was I am now 37. I love my wife, I am sure she loves me and our lives are as vibrant as the day we met, albeit, we are both a little older, slower and grayer now. We do equal mounts of chores and play more or less equal roles in day-to-day life, which I think is key…
How many of those who married Japanese women, did so under the impression that she is a “good wife” – my housework will be done, she will look stunning for eternity and will wait at home patiently with her legs open. Only too frequently here there have been quotes of “I only get sex now if I do the washing up”….!! I have struck a very similar outlook amongst ex-pats in SEA; often chaps with little going for themselves thinking they were on to a good thing, with their bar of expectation set very high and their expected contributions being very low.
Perhaps a little tangentially, I wonder how many of the posters here are American? I don’t mean this in a derogatory sense, but in my time in Asia (Korea, Laos, Thailand and Japan) I have always felt that US born ex-pats had the most trouble REALLY fitting in with the local culture. This is a massive generalisation of course, but there was a much higher latent “their culture is not right” attitude to any cultural differences, with an emphasis on the differentness in a negative way. Americans are outgoing, are direct and have many other qualities deeply engrained….unfortunately these qualities aren’t really looked on as qualities in East Asian culture and potentially set up a clash. Cultural imprinting and hangups are as much a Western issue as they are a Japanese one.
Makes you wonder…if Japanese men refrain from having sex with their wives to eliminate the chance of being cuckolded.
My Japanese wife has a Japanese friend who has cut out sex for her American husband. She was quite blunt with my wife and told her they just don’t do it anymore. I met the husband only once and he seemed a bit controlling of her and my thought was that this was her way of getting back at him.
I just stumbled upon this thread. Wow. Just wow. Very interesting – it’s got everything, from pain and pathos to hope and change. Thoughtful guys. Creepy guys. Guys I’d wanna have a beer with. Considered, balanced opinions. Troll blasts. A very few women. And to round it off, the odd Jr. Hi. Skool kid wandering in from time to time spraying graffiti and trying to look Kewl.
Lemme tell you guys. It happens on the other side of the fence as well. I’m a Western woman married to a Japanese guy. Absolutely no sex once I got preggers – over 10 years ago. I tried everything – sexy underwear, romantic stuff, kinky stuff, etc. No go. Devastated – was I so unattractive? Then I despaired. Then I got angry. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
The anger was the worst. It ate at me. Anger at him, but mostly at myself – all the signs were there before the marriage. I’d heard the stories. Buy hey – I’d already been here 10 years we married – that sort of thing wouldn’t happen to MOI!
I lost all confidence in myself. I couldn’t MAKE him attracted to me. I began to hate him. But by letting the anger overtake me I destroyed myself. I should have just had affairs – way back when there were a few feelers. (And one horrible clumsy encounter – shudder.) But it just felt bad. I couldn’t – but the lack of intimacy and the rejection made me into a bitter, unhappy person. (Now, of a certain age – ugh – gag – I couldn’t imagine taking my clothes off in front of someone.)
I wanted to divorce, but somehow couldn’t. He’s a sweet man and we used to explore and laugh a lot together. He said he loved me. He was a great, caring father. And of course the fact that (AFAIK) no foreign parent has ever gotten custody of child in this land of primitive no-joint-custody laws…well, that was what kept me here.
Now I see the light at the end of the tunnel. Only 10 more years til our lovely child is an adult with a life to live. And hell, Japan is even (possibly) sign the Hague Convention. Still no joint custody though.
Would I do it all again? Ummm…probably not.
@ Just kill me now;
I am on your side,all of what you’ve said done it,geez I dont wanna rape the guy,but I felt like I was doing it.Until I gave up and just go with the flow of life,and I pondered it isnt bad at all,If I dont think about Life isnt just about sex so maybe its ok…cheers
do not waste your time.ASIAN girls(Japanese girls,Chinese girls,Korean girls ) are sexless.to marriage to these countries girls are useless.they are not good in relation ship and have no sexual desire.these countries girls like independence.they consider them self as a traditional and sex is a taboo subject for them. these girls do sex just for money with no feelings.
96% Asian (Chinese girls,Korean girls, Japanese girls) are sex less
they prefer or like American,Canadian,Australian,British and European boys for marriage to get nationality of that countries and later they will kick you up
these girls don’t like sex with these countries boys because they have big dicks and the girls feel uncomfortable
it is true Asian girls have no feeling and no sexual desire and do sex for money
the Asian girls think these countries boys are rich and life is better there.
the Asian girls go to western countries by tourist visa to do jobs as or in a prostitute to earn much more money
in city geylang singapore million of Chinese are working in a prostitutes.
avoid Asian girls for marriage
Asian girl will say you,she love you very much but at the same time she will have affair with other guys for fun or for money
except this in Asian girls you will find many bad qualities
@ Just Kill Me Now,
Welcome to our unusual community (and ignore the trolls).
When I read your story this is what came to mind:
I knew a British woman married to a Japanese man who had two children by him. While I don’t know of their sex life I do now he was a decent person. She, however, seemed frustrated and would often attack me because I (a man) chose to stay in Japan (and have since left) while she considered herself stuck there because she was a woman with obligations. One time, at my daughter’s birthday party she started it again, saying “I don’t understand why you stay here.” This comment was unprovoked as I seldom complained about Japan being quite happy there. She, however, was fucking bitter. Having enough of her attacks, this is what I said: “I don’t see a chain around your leg. Your husband hasn’t confiscated your passport. I know you have some money of your own and a place to go back home overseas. Women leave their husbands and children every day. If you were honest, you would admit that you choose to stay here just like I do.” She never spoke to me again.
Don’t take my comments as an attack on you. They are not meant to be that at all. Do you really want to throw away the next 10 years of your life?
Nice to see this forum still up and “swinging”…
Kayumochi – how goes it? You any closer to coming back?
It’s been nearly 10 months since we’ve been back in Japan and it has been great for the relationship. Let’s just say “Certainly NOT sexless in Japan.”!!!
We have come a long way as a couple and it has been through a lot of honesty that has got us to where we are now. We are talking about what we want rather than just hoping that the other half works it out for themselves.
To those that are having a hard time with sexless in Japan I think you need to get on with your own life and get your needs met if your partner is refusing to play. Humans are sexual beings – if you can’t express yourself in that way and you want to, then it’s your responsibility to make it happen.
Your comments please.