With maid cafes where pretty young girls that ooze submissiveness to their “masters”, and “shuccho health” (出張ヘルス, basically, dial-a-prostitute) and soap-lands (sensual bathing houses with soapy special service) to vending machines for porn, and specialty shops with used high school girl underwear; Japan, at least on the surface appears one of the most sexually proactive nations in the world. Japanese men are as perverted (if not more perverted) than those in other countries, and as for the ladies, on top of being naturally feminine (with petite sexy bodies, skin that doesn’t seem to change complexion from childhood, pretty faces and silky black hair), the women of Japan have no misconceptions about what style – clothes, perfume and make up – makes a man stop in his tracks, and rouse that tingle in his loins.
When interacting with others, sex and everything surrounding it is fair game for a topic of conversation in Japan and, it is certainly not frowned upon by religious groups or society at large as it is in the USA and other countries. When it comes to secreting sexual hormones and sexuality in general, almost nothing is taboo in Japan – until that is, the day one gets married, or so it seems. Indeed in stark sexual contrast, Japan may be suffering from a sexual drought, where being totally open about sex and being sexy in general, doesn’t seem to be converted into the ins-and-outs of baby making when it comes to married couples.
Shown in these statistics, a recent survey by Japan’s health ministry found that as many as one-third of all marriages in Japan are sexless. The problem is now so widespread that the government fears it is a major contributor to the dramatic plunge in Japan’s birthrate (now only 1.28 births per woman). This sexless phenomenon is not only found in those relationships that are plunging down the drain toward divorce, but to the contrary, more and more couples that consider themselves healthily married (and have no intention of separating), have not had sex with each other in the last month or more (the common definition of “sexless” in Japan), with many saying that they have not had sex together in the last 6 months to one year.
According to the most recent survey of 41 nations last October, the average Japanese has intercourse 45 (and according to Bayer Pharmaceuticals as low as 17) times a year, compared with the global average of 103. Japan is repeatedly at the bottom of the list. Last year it trailed Singapore, which was 28 shags a year higher!
The term “sexless”, was first used in Japan in the early 1990s, but now is instantly recognizable to the Japanese as a universally understood concept, and widely discussed in the media. There are books on the subject and thousands websites and heartbreaking blogs discussing sexless Japan, while letters on the subject fill agony columns on “dear doctor”-type sites.
One in five sexless couples say they view sex simply as a nuisance. A small number cite the lack of a private space, because children or elderly parents often sleep just the other side of a paper-thin door, leading many married couples to even sleep in separate rooms. Mitsui Home announced recently in an Asahi Newspaper article, that in 30% of the new houses they build, the couples are asking for 2 “master” bedrooms. This is a shocking statistic, which shows that sexless couples want to continue living their lives together – separately! “We are sort of room-mates rather than a married couple”, one 31-year-old man, who had not had sex with his wife for two years, told the Asahi Shinbun.
There are many other theories about why the Japanese become less inclined to raunchy evenings in the sack together, but likely it is a mixture of some of these:
- Stress of work/life in Japan (maybe the taihen cloud?)
- Lack of understanding, and usage of contraception, especially “the pill” (who wants to use condoms with their wife!?), making sex with your wife viable only when you want to have a baby
- Abundance of 不倫 (furin, or extra-marital) relationships
- More and more Japanese women choosing career over family
- A tendency among Japanese married couples to feel an aversion to sex with their spouse, not because they dislike one another, but rather because they feel that they have more of a sister-brother relationship; the sanctity of which would be destroyed with a repulsive incest-like feeling, by what westerners would consider normal conjugal relations
The last point is an interesting one, as in the past, it has been traditionally Japanese women who complained that they couldn’t see their hubby “as a member of the opposite sex.” But in the last few years, there’s been an exponential increase in men who can’t view their wives as sexual partners either. While it is true that many Japanese married couples seem to be sexless in nature, they key thing to remember is that this certainly does not mean that they lack the desire for sexual fulfillment. While marriage and children may bring on a sex drought in the home, Japanese people who want (and in the case of most men, need) sex do not simply abstain from sex because they cannot see the feminine qualities in their own wife, or the sexual attraction of their hard working husband.
Japanese men love their companies; they live for work, and many don’t even think it is a problem if they don’t have sex with their wives. They have pornography and the sex industry (soap lands, cabaret bars, and dial-a-girl services, and trips to Taiwan) to take care of their needs, but their wives have nowhere to go. They just suffer in silence.. or do they? The divorce rate in Japan has nearly doubled in the past 10 years, with more women blaming their sexually inactive, as opposed to sexually errant, husbands for break-ups. Though they may not be seeking sexual pleasure from their better halves, married Japanese women are seeking intimacy from other sources (many even claim to have a sex addiction), leading double lives – being the good mother, while at the same time seeking out “Leroy” the lover, who is always lurking, and ready to fulfill her every desire.
Japan is full of temptation, and it doesn’t matter whether you are a housewife or salary-man, there is plenty of raunchy action waiting out there – if that is what you desire. Furin sites to find a (extra marital) “sex friend” partner are just as rampant in Japan as in other countries, however they are much more widely used by women in Japan to solve their sexless quandaries. For the more conservative ladies, sites like mixi.jp – which are neutrally classed as “social networking” spaces – are abound with profiles (men and women) looking for partners to secretly spruce up their sexless, but otherwise happily married lives.
Many Japanese marriages may be sexless, but this is only a statistic about the state of sex within marriage itself. In fact, there may be a good reason for the sexless condition of marriages here – Are the Japanese getting enough of the good stuff outside their marriages to keep them happy? I certainly think so.
Japanese people will never be sexless as individuals; therefore Japan is not sexless, so don’t let mere statistics confuse the situation!
(If you are married in Japan, or married to a Japanese, let us know what you think of “Sexless Japan” by leaving a comment below!)
I myself could be another statistic. It irritates me so much that I still have that sexual desire for my wife, I let her know and all I get from her is an “I’m sorry!”
We haven’t even kissed like we use to, like lovers. I know that there is more to marriage than sex and that it is not the MOST IMPORTANT thing. But it is an impotant aspect, that needs tending too, to keep a healthy marriage. I trully miss the kissing and the sensual touching.
David:
All I can say is forget even asking. Why do it if you only get a sorry from her? Just stop please. It is a waste of time and energy. With a Japanese women it will never get better. They are for the most part asexual. Enjoy the other aspects of your marriage and do not even try to touch or kiss her.
Trust me there is no solution.
I just wish someone wise 28 years ago told me the following.
Just say no. Friends do not let friends marry Japanese women.
Timmy:
“Friends do not let friends marry Japanese women.” – VERY FUNNY!
It took a looooong time (days!), but I actually read thru all the 600+ posts… phew!
I am coming up on 20 years of marriage to a Japanese woman (we are in our mid 40s) and can corroborate a lot of what has been written in this thread. I also got the bait and switch treatment, perhaps not as extreme as others. We still have sex, but she never initiates, EVER. And I get all the same excuses that’ve been posted previously when she doesn’t want to (oops, let me!). But when she does, we can still have some good sessions now and again. But I’ve had to invest A LOT of mental energy in keeping her “in the game”.
Before we married, I spent a lot of time studying about Japan and the language (I was trying to get a piece of “the bubble”), so i did my fair share of research on the Japanese. I also lived in Japan at the start of our marriage, and still travel there on business 2~3 times a year. Here are a few things I can share from my experience:
1. Husbands have no “blood relation” to the wife, and therefore are at the bottom of the totem pole at home… for me it’s just below the dog. 😉 (Thank God for the kids – since she does the cooking for them she’ll include a plate for me)… The best book I’ve read on the Japanese psyche is “The Anatomy of Dependence” by Takeo Doi. It is MUST reading for those involved with the Japanese. It gave me a chance to preempt some of the issues others have encountered with their Japanese spouses. (ie., I knew going in that the mother-child relationship would be THE strongest in her life.) But, facing the reality of some of those issues still sucked whether I could prevent them or not.
2. Living in the U.S., I believe, is better for us as a couple/family. In Japan, all she would hear from the other wives is how none of them sleep with their husbands. This would perpetuate the situation at home as the Japanese are generally very susceptible to peer pressure (“None of my friends have sex any more. Why should we?”) At least here in the U.S., there are images that show a strong nuclear bond, with the husband/wife relationship as central. (And if it doesn’t work, you try again with someone else.)
3. This lack of husband/wife bond did lead me to build a relationship with a married American woman because of the emotional connection we made. We were emailing, texting and talking everyday but had not become sexual (yet) when my wife got wind. This sent her into a frenzy, and I honestly felt bad about it. But the reality was, I wasn’t being fulfilled emotionally (and sexually) at the time… In the end, I think this opened my wife’s eyes to what might become of our marriage if we didn’t try to be “a couple” again. After a couple of tough years (she needed to get it out of her immediate memory, and I needed to show her I wouldn’t maintain the “affair”), our relationship has improved considerably and we are in a pretty good place right now (5 years later). We’re not having sex as much as I’d like, but definitely more than 5 or 10 years ago.
4. Having as much daily, verbal communication as possible also helps with the intimacy. This is often VERY difficult, however, because my wife is admittedly very simple. So conversations can be excruciatingly basic. She has little desire to learn anything new intellectually (“I already know what I need to know” or “I’m done going to school”). But for me, it is frustrating, as I enjoy learning new things as a part of my human condition.
5. She is much more receptive to sex when the kids are not home. Of course, with 3 kids, this almost never happens, but when it does, she is WAY more willing, and usually WAY more into it. So I think a lot has to do with her getting out of her “home” mind-set… putting her into a different mental environment where she can be “free” without the chance of “getting caught” so to speak. (“Yellow Cab” mentality?)… But she still never initiates or makes any outward effort to create such an environment.
I’ll stop here, but I can definitely empathize with all the husbands of Japanese women. They are, generally, GREAT and devoted mothers, just not the best wives/companions in the Western definition… As such, I, too, would not recommend a Japanese wife, especially if you want mutual emotional/sexual/intellectual fulfillment from your spouse. It’s just not part of their cultural make-up… ergo, the thriving industry of Geisha, “snack”, soaplands, and love hotels…
@Mulligan
Very interesting post, thank you for sharing.
I agree about the Japanese peer pressure, I call it the Hive-Mentality.
Men don’t know how important all this advice is and how heeding it would literally save themselves a life time of emotional and sexual isolation.
Thanks Again!!!
I concur with a lot of what is being said but I’d like to find out something, and that is whether my wife is a little nutty. Last week, I put 4 pieces of pre-sliced bread in the toaster. After it was toasted, she opens it up and asks me which bread goes with which. I was incredulous so I said, whichever one you want, it doesn’t matter. She kept at it telling me it does matter. I just nodded my head, said I don’t know and walked away.
Is this related to her being Japanese, or is she just a bit crazy?
BTW, she finally initiated last week which was a miracle, but overall it’s painful dealing with this.
Doug:
You missed an opportunity. What were you thinking? You should have said that the female slices goes on top of the male slices.
I just wanted to say to all the foreign men who have posted on this site complaining about their Japanese wives, well the men/husbands are no better either!
Most Japanese husbands lose interest after the first few years of marriage. In my case we have no children and we are both in our forties , I am still interested in sex and long for it, maybe not like when I was younger but my husband never initiates and sometimes if I do he says he is too tired.
I know my husband is not having an affair ,doesn’t to girlie bars nor does he read those obnoxious mangas. So why isn’t he interested in sex any more?
I simply think once the Japanese are in a long term relation the intimacy and sex just goes out the window and that is just a fact of life that one has to live with.
I often travel to other countries and communicate with people of different backgrounds, however I haven’t heard people complain as much as those with J.spouses.
Mary:
After reading thru this thread, it seems you are not alone. Japanese men tend to withdraw as well. Again, I think it has to do with the cultural nature of the husband/wife relationship in Japan. The emotional, intimacy, and sexual expectations throughout the life of a marriage just aren’t the same as in the West. The husband/wife relationship is secondary to the other obligations in life. It is more like a business partnership.
I think the Japanese have been suppressing their inner feelings for “societal harmony” for so long that it is second nature to live by “tatemae”. So much so, that they sometimes think their “tatemae” IS their “honne”. Even when given carte blanche to express their “honne”, they sometimes still can’t do it, or don’t know how, because they never developed that ability to let go freely. This is can be VERY frustrating when trying to get them to communicate their inner feelings… And I think subconsciously they are also afraid of being labeled “hen” (since they would be the only one having sex with their spouse) and the resulting “murahachibu” (to use an old expression) that might result.
Timmy:
You should consider a stand-up routine at one of the amateur nights at a local Tokyo “live house”! I’d pay to watch… and empathize! ;-P
Timmy, thanks for the word of encouragement But it really needs to take the work of two people to fix the problem. I really commend Mulligan for reading through all these statements.
DUDE!!! Your my hero. I Just breezed through some and I was getting fumed and confused where the statements were coming from and for a while where they were going. But here is my two bits for this session.
Like I said, I’ve been having difficulty in my marriage just like anybody else. But sexless marriages not only exist in Japan. America and Mexico, and just as likely, any where else in the world. But the diference is that this is our concern, Those who chose to marry into the culture. I’ll bet, for a decent majority of the husbands on this thread are relatively responsible and their fair share, or more sometimes, to help relieve the stress of burden on their wives. I can speak for my self that I do. And my wife also undestands my our plight, I just don’t know if she is or going to be doing doing anything about it. But I am also no saint, I am still a man and human, and one with his own secrets. I just have been safe about them. Well as safe as one can be.
And a note to those that are outsiders looking in, Especially those who have not experienced that what “we”, husband and wives, have . We know that sex is not the important thing in a marriage, neither is money nor having children. But neglecting any one thing long enough, and not addressing it at all, will result in serious problems. A marrige requires balance, it takes work but it can be done. It would also be foolish to think a relationship wil not change when you get married, even though we would like to think otherwise. So, to the outsiders, don’t be surprised if you get a nasty comeback.
With that said here is the point. We really need to get the perspective of those we are claiming are hurting the relationship, and we need to continue to bring it up again and again until the message gets through. They should also understand that if they discover that their partner has gone outside the marriage, that they shouldn’t be too surprised about their discovery. We don’t want to get a divorce, we want to prevent one, but our partners are sure not helping in preventing the though from crossing our minds. I know my wife was real quick to bring that up. But Japanese traditionalism is no help at times. I know my wife had uncomfortable experiences with Japanese doctors that rarely run into concerns like those that we pseak of. And there was more than one occasion where I wished I was there at the time so I crunch him through the wall, or atleast given him a decent earful. But this problem is just not talked enough about it during the day time. I was surprised to hear that one comedians wife showing up on that comedy advise show. In a nut shell, her beef is that he isn’t intimite enough with her.
I have friends, both in “mixed” and “unmixed” (for lack of a better term) marriages, and both types of couple exist. But it almost appears that the “sexless marriage” problem is more prominant. I have also learned it is not just the wife that is the problem, but the husband could also be the one with the issues. Bless those that have the relative heathy relationship, and i wish them the best. I just hate feeling envious of them, especially when it is about something that really shouldn’t be a problem. But to be fair, every relationship should be given the benefit of the doubt, especially since every relationship probably has their own set of circumstances that led that relationship to its present state.
The irony of it all is if you look at it in a historical perspective, It is almost understandable why prostitution, male and female, has existed for so long and why concubines was also so acceptable amongst nobility or the wealthy.
But I would like to hear from those wives and husbands whose sexdrive or sexual appetite has all but diminished. I would really like to hear their sides. I would also like to see this thread spread outside this blog. Maybe attach a link to that comedian’s wife story. I thnk I saw it on Japantoday.com. I would also like readers out there with some positive news. Just to change the mood a little.
Any takers???
“But I would like to hear from those wives and husbands whose sex drive or sexual appetite has all but diminished.”
D.C. 601:
I really do not think that will ever happen. Those Japanese wives and husbands just do not care. I bet not one Japanese spouse if asked would read this blog. I totally agree with Coconut. He sad Funny thing is, usually its hard for Japanese to say no to peoples requests. In fact maybe husbands are the only people they say no too. I will also have to include Mary in this. She will her a no from her husband also if she ask him to read this blog. I hope I am proved wrong but you will never hear from those Japanese asexual wives or husbands.
A person married to a Japanese is second to their family and pets. All I can say is enjoy a life outside your Japanese wife or husband . I have learned to do this and for me it is not all that bad.
Each marriage is different and for me mine is totally nonsexual. All I can say is I envy Mulligan and Coconut. At lease they get some now and then.
Timmy
Timmy,
We could only hope. I would like to think there are some people that will face the problems and try to fix them, or atleast properly acknowledge them.
D.C.
People there is no problem.
The JIST of all the posts is that this is a Cultural Norm, therefore there is no problem to fix, face or acknowledge.
In the cases where the J-Spouses live like this there is really no hope. The cultural norm is already ingrained into the person, its normal. To them the person who is abnormal is the person who seeks intimacy.
Perhaps its the Christian/Western culture in people that always makes them look to hope as a possible solution.
Here’s an update. My wife is too tired during the week due to work so I waited for the weekend to see if she’d initiate. I purposefully did not ask about it to see. Sure enough, nothing happened. So Sunday night I asked what I should do if she’s not interested in sex. She complained that she’s too tired from work and household chores. Basically, both at work and home, she feels she’s doing too much so she feels she is overworked. for example, she won’t wait for me to do the dishes, she’ll do them right away, and not say anything. But she’ll use it as a reason not to have sex later on. Communication is bad at work as well as home for her.
So I said I’d prepare her dinner better when she came home etc. That satisfied her, and she said she’d have sex the following day. But that night after her shower we did it anyway, which is very rare since she had already taken a shower.
If this lasts more than a couple of weeks I’ll be surprised. If it’s not one thing it’s another with her.
Coconut;
If that were true then the divorce rate would be lower and this would be the first country that its populous condone “open” relationships. But even the sexual related frustrations are being complained about one side or the other in an all Japanese relationship. I agree, it could be ingrained and further nurtured by family, but it doesn’t mean that they actually like it.
Just thought it is good to remind ourselves why sex is so good. I found this on the web and agree with most of it.
Enjoy!
1. The balance of your mental and emotional health is definitely influenced by sex. While abstinence often leads to anxiety or paranoia and even depression…having sex can cure cases of light depressions. After having exercised sex, the brain releases endorphins that decrease stress and induce a wonderful state of euphoria.
2. For all you women, having regular sex means freedom from expensive salon treatments. An excellent beauty treatment, having sex actually doubles the level of estrogen in women and makes their hair shine with brilliance while making their skin supple and softer.
3. And if you want to live longer, then look no further than your own bedroom. According to a research carried out at Queens University in Belfast, Ireland, having regular sex increases the lifespan in humans. It was found that out of the people of the same age and health, those who had more frequent orgasms faced 50% less death rate than who people who didn’t have frequent orgasms.
4. Sex is an excellent deep-cleansing treatment as well. Since sex is a strenuous but enjoyable exercise, when you have sex the pores of your skin are cleansed leaving a brighter and glowing skin as well as decreasing the risk of developing dermatitis.
5. An inexpensive and pleasurable exercise, sex can make you lose weight. When you have sex after a candlelight romantic dinner, not only do you burn all the fat and carbohydrates you consumed, but you also stay healthy at no extra cost! Consider this: A single session of passionate, mind-blowing sex (even regular sex) can burn about 200 calories. This is equivalent to running for 15 minutes on a treadmill!
6. Ladies, if you like you man to have bulging biceps then have sex more often. Sex is a great way to strengthen muscles. Imagine the effort made by your man through those difficult pushes and flexions! Of course, it all depends on the stunts in your bed…but it’s definitely better than running for miles on miles.
7. The more active your sex life, the more attractive and irresistible you become for the opposite sex. Really! An active sex life means that your body gets into the habit of releasing more pheromones, chemicals that attract all those gorgeous, luscious women! No wonder Casanova was so popular!
8. Sex can sharpen your senses; especially enhance your sense of smell. After sex, prolactin is released that activates the stem cells in the brain to form new neurons in the olfactory bulb. This helps to improve your sense of smell.
9. A pain reliever, sex is TEN times more effective than painkillers such as Valium. Just before orgasm, the hormone oxytocin’s level rises almost 5 times, leading to release of large amount of endorphins. Endorphins are natural painkillers and relieve you of pain, minor headaches, and migraines without any after effects. Next time your lady has a headache, treat her with a vigorous session of lovemaking rather than a Valium.
10. The act of Kissing stimulates salivation, which helps clean food particles stuck between the teeth and lowers the acidity level in your mouth. This is the primary cause of tooth decay. So kiss all you want, after all it’s a great excuse!
So my dear friends, sex is not just good for the mind, the body, but the wallet as well!
Mary:
Thanks a bunch for making my feeling of frustration even greater. Like I really needed to be reminded why sex is good. Can you please find out for me if it works if I do it myself or is a partner required to receive these multiple benefits.
When I want to have sex my wife is very polite in a Japanese fashion. She leaves the room so I can focus alone on the job at hand.
Number 10 the act of kissing is not a do it yourself job. This is something my Japanese wife will never even think about doing. To her it is just way too unclean. Mary, is your husband the same in this way of thinking?
Coconut is correct once again in explaining that there is no hope. I really do not think my wife will have a road to Damascus experience. It is wrong but the only hope I have at this point is to hook up someday with someone like Mary who seems like a fun lady.
Doug,
Don’t play the game, you will loose every time. This is due to the fact that Japanese women know NO limit to how crazy they will act.
Soon you will find yourself in a Damned-if-you-do-Damned-if-you-don’t situation. This will serve as a deal breaker to get her off the hook for having sex.
Timmy
All I can say is that being a man in an Asian country it is so much easier to hook up with a woman. There are tons of women out there who might just wanna meet a man like you, so don’t hesitate at the opportunity of having fun. And don’t allow your wife’s rejection, lower your self confidence.
As for us middle-aged gaijin women , Japan is like a desert where it is very hard to meet available men and even worse if you are looking for a non Japanese man.
Most foreign men I have met who are in relations with J women, just want to talk to a gaijin woman who can understand them about their troubled marriages, there isn’t a lot more to it.
But the last thing I want to say is that sex is more fun, if you do it with a person you care for rather than a one night stand to satisfy your instincts. Or at least if feels like that for women.
I didn’t mention it before but this is actually my second marriage.
Before I was married for 13 years to another American person [not Japanese], but what it taught me is that if a person is not willing to do something or is not able to do something it won’t happen. You can not use reason, books, counseling, begging, or threats to get results. Believe me, I tried all of the above including vigilant prayer and even college courses on the Psychology of Women to help me understand the problem in order to ‘fix it’. After 13 years of what I called Purgatory, yes I literally felt as if I was being punished by God for past sins. I was the “Perfect” husband before, until I just said forget it, I refused to allow myself live in total misery. After 10 years of torment I finally got a girl-friend and started to relieve some of my pent-up frustrations. 3 years later I got rid of her all together and became a free man.
Long story short, before when i was highly religious it was my convictions that served to benefit my spouse as the fear of God kept me from happiness. This allowed her to basically be the worst wife a man could imagine, living in the comfort that your[my] convictions would make you[me] an honest man ‘no matter what’. Well it took me some time to realize that life is not about torment, agony, and enduring a life of being starved of a nature human need ‘love, affection, and intimacy’, but instead life is about being happy and fulfilled. Its not me who is crazy or overly needy, based on all the Psychological studies my needs are normal. Its the people who can not feel and act out or share love-affection and intimacy who are damaged in some way. It is not my lot in life to endure and suffer because of someone else’s faults that they have no desire to correct. Instead I choose to peacefully and respectfully move on with my life and leave them to theirs.
It is very interesting how most comments are from men complaining about their Japanese wives. Let me tell you Japanese wives can be sexual and have sexual desires too.
I guess my case is a little different in that I the husband am not a very physically sexual person, and yes the feeling between my Japanese wife and I is very much that of brother and sister. Our marriage is great we are very happy living and being together.
I have no interest or need in affairs or extra marital sex and both my wife and I know that.
Now what I might say next might shock some people but my wife meets a married guy (who loves his wife but she is not so sexual) about once month. She doesn’t want to meet him any more than this, it is an escape for her and for him and she always comes back to me and he to his wife. This really works for our marriage. We feel strong and close that we do the best for each other and are honest with each other.
Maybe many men have an arrangement with there wife condoning extra marital sex in certain circumstances? I just what to say sometimes it happens the other way.
People are different so you can’t just blame everything on Japanese women.
InJapan
So you are what is called a Cock-Hold husband.
That lifestyle is rare even amongst sexually open Americans.
Glad it works for you and yours but most people of any culture would not choose that lifestyle.
I think the term is cuckold.
We are not swingers or anything like that and it is more of an arrangement to keep everyone happy than a fetish thing like you see on the internet.
I don’t thing my situation is much different to many mens? just with the genders reversed.
I can understand the sexless Japanese wifes mindset.
Honestly I would say these arrangements are very common in Japan but they are kind of implied and unsaid rather than it being a big out in the open American style way.
coconut
I don’t know how rare this lifestyle is because I guess it isn’t something people talk about.
From what I have heard and from this thread it seems that this lifestyle is common but with the man being allowed by the wife to seek his needs outside the marriage.
I guess it is more taboo the other way? although statistics show as many women as men have extra marital sex.
Thinking over things I come to the question.
What is intimacy?
My wife and I are very intimate in hugging each other and gentle kisses but for us sticking are tongues down each others throats just doesn’t feel right.
My wife does have needs for another type of intimacy and those feelings aren’t with me which we both accept and live with.
My wife does have needs for another type of intimacy and those feelings aren’t with me which we both accept and live with.
InJapan:
Come on and do your job as a man and a husband. Stop being the town wimp and make love to your wife. This is something you should do even if you do not really enjoy it all that much. Suck it up and act like you enjoy it. A real man or woman will do things for their wife or husband regardless.
Sorry but I do not think your wife does really accept or live with it. That is why she has a boy toy.
Timmy
I guess that is just the way are marriage is.
I have to say my wife is happy with the situation, maybe with her being Japanese she is more accepting of the lack of sexual intimacy between us but in a way it fits with her view of a perfect husband and that is me.
InJapan:
You are not all man because you do not have sex with your willing wife. In the same way my wife and the many Japanese women like her are not all woman because they will not have sex with their willing husbands.
A partial man would need to have an arrangement like you have to satisfy his wife. How pathetic that must feel !
Timmy
Do you love your wife? even though she isn’t all woman as you say.
I love my wife and she loves me, There are many shades of love.
I suppose in a perfect world my wife would be married to the guy she shes and his wife would be with me, but in that situation there isn’t the love that my wife and I feel for each other and that he and his wife feel for each other.
Also it isn’t just Japanese women, look how with me it is reversed.
I don’t feel pathetic at all in fact my wife says it makes me more of a man to understand her needs and have this arrangement and I feel more of a man for allowing it knowing I DO satisfy her just indirectly through my acquiescence.
InJapan:
I love my wife like I love my sisters. It is not a romantic love like it was just before and shortly after my marriage with her. I know I would feel different if she had sex with me or just even touched or kissed me with passion. I do not see her a a whole women because of this. I would not want my son or daughter to marry such a person.
I think one feels a great romantic love for a person if that person also has deep sexual desire for you. This can happen to two virgins before they get married. They do not have sex and wait for marriage. The passion of love between them builds up because of their mutual desire of waiting to be intimate. Kind of like a kid waiting for Christmas morning.
Now my romantic love for my wife has died. I know she is a good woman and a great mother, daughter, sister, and friend to many. However: as a wife she is not whole.
Where does that leave me? It just kills me. I have a wife that says I can have sex with another woman. All she wants to know is that if it happens to let her know and then she will never have sex with me again out of a fear of a sexual disease. Well it would not be a big loss for me if I am totally cut off because at this point our sexual contact happens maybe once a year. When it does happen it is worse than being with a dead fish. It is more like being with a cat that wants to escape. At this time I have a romantic love for another woman who is in activist group with me and she feels the same romantic love toward me. I want to have my wife feel this passion for me and not another women. I am pulled by a desire for to be with this whole passionate woman on one side and a religious love of God and Jesus on the other. I really do not know what I am going to do. I will most likely end up in arms of this woman. However: I really do not want the drama.
InJapan for your wife please man up and give her a loving kiss and a sexual massage. Even if you hate it do it to it anyway. Even a castrated man can be a whole man and use just a very little bit of creativity to sexual satisfy a woman. Please do it. That would be true love.
Timmy,
I am sincerely happy for you. Its too bad that it had to happen the way that it did, we all hope for full relationships with our spouses of course. But as far as I know you only live once and we all deserve to be fulfilled and happy in this life.
All I can say is to be careful not to over commit emotionally to your s/o, its an easy thing to do when you have been deprived for so long.
InJapan
All I can say is that if both you and your spouse are happy with your arrangement then great.
I think there are two issues at play here;
one is some people are just not sexual or uninterested in physical sex. I am like that and it sounds a good many wives are.
The second is how you view your husband and wife. Especially in Japan many people don’t view their spouse in a sexual way and it feels quite weird in some ways, The closer you become the less intimate sexually you become because you feel like family (mother and son/ brother and sister) as has been stated. My wife would be in this section as in I am family to her but for her pleasure it is another guy she meets.
What is the solution? I don’t know how to make someone interested in sex when they aren’t?
For the second problem I think most couples here have a “don’t ask don’t tell” feeling when it comes to extra martial sex and I think that feeling comes from both husbands and wives.
This all works for my wife and I, we both feel happy and fulfilled however for some people it just doesn’t work. I do think partners should try and reach each other half way however with regards to differences.
InJapan:
If you are an asexual man why did you get married? My younger brother is asexual and I love him to death. My younger relatives think he is gay because he is not married and has never had a girl friend from what they can see. I know my brother well since we are close in age. He just does not have an interest in sex with any gender. I get that. However: I am clueless why would an asexual person like you get married in first place ?
I also wonder why in Japan so many people both male and female are asexual. It is way beyond the norm of other areas of the world. Is it the diet? It is just way too strange.
In responce to 615 and 618
Mary;
AMEN!!!! I wish we could spread the word and have it believed. But for some odd reason, people who here those facts they blow them off as bogus.
I do agree that sex is alot more enjoyable whenn your with a loved one. but it is also nice just to be with some one you care for. I think you should not focus in just trying to find some non-Japanese to be with but a nice guy that just enjoy to be in your company. Best wishes.
And hang in there Timmy, I feel your pain brother.
InJapan
I kind of agree with Timmy. Why even get married? Why do you let your relationship get to that state? If the goal is to have children, don’t even bother just adopt a dog or some fish. That way when the divorse occurs, every one can walk away with out affecting anybody else. That thinking the other person as a brother or sister or whatever is the same bullshit excuse some guys and girls hear when they try to ask a girl or guy out they have known for years. Because “they don’t want to complicate the frienship”. That is a load of crap. Your spouse is not your sibling or a parent figure. your spouse is your SPOUSE, LOVER, LIFE PARTNER. You should never put your spouse in the same catagory as your sibling. Quite frankly, I think it is a hormonal issue for both guys and girls.
And if your still thinking your spouse as a sibling or parent figure? then for F@#K sake, have an Incestual F#@K session with that significant other then walk away from one another. Go to your local municipal office, drop off those divorce papers in the night box and call it a night…………………………………………………
IMO, people get married for companionship more than anything. The like the person and think of them as a life long partner or companion. This is outside of sex etc. However those other things like sex usually break people up. InJapan and his mate might think of each other as good companions and have a very full life outside of intimacy, since neither of them have a sexual desire for the other.
If one looks at Maslow’s hierarchy of human needs you will find that of the most basic human need is sexuality. Also up the scale again is the need for Love and Belonging which includes intimacy. Religion and society has managed to ingrain in peoples mind that fulfilling this natural basic human needs is wrong or dirty and should be controlled. Those beliefs are archaic and do not fit reality and does not serve to maintain the healthy human state of being. It was not until modern times that these needs were identified as true needs pertaining to basic human instinct.
I think InJapan has his situation well under control. From what he says both parties feel comfortable and satisfied in the marriage and in the relationship. He also states what should be the obvious truth by now to those who have followed this thread. It is that Normal Japanese culture puts husbands and wives in more of a blood relative scenario rather than the traditional Western romantic style of relationship. I just hope that when I come to Japan I will meet his wife as well as many other women seeking intimate encounters. I won’t ask and I ain’t tellin.
On another note, I think my wife thinks I am sleeping with someone else because of her suspicious behavior lately. I have cut our sex down to 1-2 times per month [mainly because of me being so busy lately as well as me not being too sexually attracted to her]. But when we do have sex I knock her socks off [so to speak], now she is trying to keep track of my every move and making sly comments. Also every night for the past week there has been some form of Tofu for dinner.
Cocunut
Thank you for you support. My wife and I both feel are marriage is very healthy in fact. We have been together a long time and still feel very close to each other.
(SIGH)…….. I guess I should eat my words and owe InJapan an apology. We should be so lucky to have a spouse like that. One that is willing to change emotionally, physically, and psychologically in the same direction as the other where it is acceptable in the relationship to seak the sexual and emotional intimacy from another outside the marriage. But it still begs to question, why does one spouse feels hurt and rejected because the other denies him/her sexually or emotionally; while at the sametime the denieing spouse feels the same negative feelings because that spouse discovers that they have been betrayed, but might have an understanding why the other spouse went astray? Yet the denieing spouse still denies that acknowledgement of fault to the cheating spouse.
Logically it makes no sense, But flukes do occur. So InJapan, consider yourselves, for a lack of better term, lucky. If you and your wife are satisfied with the state of your marriage, the so be it. Mor power to you. But the point the rest of us is trying to make is that we DIDN’T WANT TO GO OUTSIDE OF OUR MARRIAGES. We wanted a balanced marriage, it just happen to be that this thred has been provided for by those who are married to a Japanese person. The feeling of rejection, hurt and betrayal is not a Japanese thing. It is unfortunate that the sexless marriage issue is more prominant and more obvious in Japan or to those married to a Japanese (in relation to this thred).
The logic of marriage, outside of religion and the desire to propagate, was to be with someone(s) who you can relate to; emotionally, physically, and intelectually. At least in a polygamy relationship, if it is accomplished amongst consenting parties successfully, are all actively involved in the relationship.
But even the Japanese culture had always had a romanticized vision of a monogamous marriage. Look at there literature, legends and folk stories, you could even see it in there popular forms of entertaining media today; TV, manga, music, and movies. All the desires that a moderate “Westerner” wishes out of a marriage is not that much different from those of a moderate Japanese. And yet sex is still an issue.
D.C. 601:
I agree with much of what you said. However: the question I have to InJapan is why he does not enjoy being with his wife sexually. This is the question I have for all these Japanese women. Why is this activity not fun? The cost is zero. As shown earlier be Mary there are health benefits. In addition even if you do not like it why would you not do it to give the one you love some pleasure? We all do things for our spouse task we do not enjoy. Wash the dishes, do the laundry, mow the lawn, paint the house, go to a restaurant we may not like, and spend time with an In Law we really do not care for. What is the big deal in spending a half hour giving your husband or wife something they really love.
Again why can not an asexual person like InJapan give his wife some pleasure that she needs. He is basically hiring out this job like he would pay someone to mow his yard.
I just do not get.
I think InJapan and his wifes view point is;
There is an occasional need [he says about once a month].
He could try to fill the need, say like baking her a cake. But why go through all that trouble for a so-so cake when all she has to do is go to the Bakery and get exactly the cake she wants.
She sees no problem with it. And he sees no problem with it.
After she makes her trip to the Bakery, she comes back home satisfied. No harm, no foul. Everyone is happy…..InJapan, his wife, and the Baker. Its win-win all around.
imo, its very practical, its reality. For example if you are hungry, sure the first place you may look is your own kitchen to see if you can find some food. But if nothing is there its only natural to consider ordering out. If a wife makes it clear that she will not supply intimacy then a man should have no problems in ordering out. Same principle. Just do so with discretion and respect and all is well. The wife is happy because she does not have to perform, the hubby is happy because he can release his anxiety, and the other person is happy because they can scratch their itch as well.
Its no need to [force] yourself to conform to the Western “Norm” of a relationship. I think if people could get rid of all the stigmatizes society places on fulfilling natural desire things would go a lot smoother. And instead of Divorcing because of infidelity when otherwise the marriage is good, people would simply allow their mates to respectfully seek satisfaction without retribution and live otherwise happy lives.
Coconut
You explain my marriage better than I do! It is exactly like that. Yes, it is about once a month for the need, The funny think is if my wife was with someone who liked sex maybe once a month isn’t enough and they would be complaining about her?
Timmy
I am an asexual person and as Coconut puts it the situation at present works so much better than myself trying to force myself to do it and my wife being frustrated due to the so-so cake.
D.C. 601
Apology accepted, You are right, We are a very lucky couple but I would say that is just love that you try and work things out. With regards to sex I heard there are plenty of couples who have amazing sex but for other reasons can’t be together, they keep fighting, don’t have the same interests etc… so relationships are based on more than just sex.
All that is still iffy, though. More often than not jealousy kicks in if both members don’t keep their wits abbout them.
InJapan,
Unfortunately I have seen the truth in divorces amongst some of my friends and aquantiinces. Sex, like money, is not the only focus in a marriage. BUT….
There is that BUT again…
But leave a small problem lingering long enough without paying any attention then it will be a big problem, and possibly dangerous. Leave a pot of boiling water continous boiling on the lowest heat level, you will have that hot water. Leave it unattended, it will slowly evaporate. Completely ignore it, the water will eventually be gone, the pot might be damaged and you could possibly have a fire on your hands. Your are right sex, is not the only focus in marriages. Neither is money, emotional intimacy, nor intellectual stimiulation, but those have been the grounds for many divorces (outside of abuse or an unjustifiable sence of mistrust that could lead up to violence.)
So, like I said, InJapan. You and your wife are the lucky ones. Just be sure you and your wife keep your wits about you as you progress through your marriage. But for the rest of us, we should just be discreet and respectful when we seek intimacy, in what ever form, outside of our marriages. But none of us should be caught off our guard if we are discovered and our partners are angry and wish to get a divorce. Not all partners will be as understanding as those in the relatioship similar to that of InJapan.
As for the food euphamism, I would like to say we are culinary literate in my home and in all actuality, I like my baked cheese cake best and my wifes soba and our nights of izakaya style foods. But I do feel like a Big Mac every once in awhile.
The Key to marriage, like in life, is balance. That is why Cookie Monster doesn’t eat only cookies. He likes crunchy fruits and veggies and his mom’s lasagna……….
As far as I know, The Cookie Monster only eats Cookies.
But is this balance you speak of an excuse to indulge in other females besides the one flavor you have at home?
Is it variety you seek or balance?
Coconut
You don’t see much Sesame Street, do you? Your missing out…..
Indulgence in other partners would be the result of someone NOT being in a BALANCED marriage. NOT the result of someone IN a balanced marriage. But as for “flavors” go, food stuffs are inadimate objects, you can’t interact or converse with food. But a good marriage patner will converse and interact with you, will even try new things every once in a while, and that is in all aspects of a marriage. Plus, my apple pie at home will not leave me or spit out its apple filling if I bring home a strawberry short cake.
Anyway, it is balance I wish for myself. For my own reasons, I REALLY desire for my wife. She actually does it for me.
But what I mean about balance in a marriage is the relative definition of a happy marriage. A marriage where one doesn’t feel the need to “indulge” in other women, because they are HAPPY in that marriage.
For those who are married and are (sorry for the cliche) but driven to seek intimacy outside of their marriages; do it because they’re not getting that intimacy at home. Either because of hormones imbalance from having children, worklife, or some other emotional or non-emotional changes. These are choices that are made because that person feels like they are out of options. I know how I felt when went outside of my marriage, and I know how it feels now when I try and fail to get my wife interested again.
Those that wish variety in their marriage, the issue is with the individual(s) (that’s if both parties are involved). The individual desires and actively seeks variety, even when everything is good in the marriage. Those individuals in an unhappy marriage, feel justified in their desire and seeking of variety. It is a choice that is made freely and with little regard to the marriage.
If “indulging” is what you want to do then one should stay single or marry a similar person that has the same train of thought as you about marriage.
If your looking for an example of people living outside an “archaic” institution in regards to mariage and are relatively succesful, look at Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn. They are not married, but apparently they believe in a monogamist romance and apparently it has been working for them.
D.C.
You make valid points, I do agree.
I appreciate the comment. But this argument doesn’t even cover the hang-ups that some people experience, which weren’t really expected, or at least were unwelcomed. It took me a while to learn how to avoid such hang ups.
I’ve pretty much read this whole thread, took hours, and oh boy. Fuck me.
Im 26, had a japanese gf. we both studied here in the USA and recently graduated. she went back home, i said no im gona work on my american dream (im an international student here)
Shes a really nice girl, she pretty much ‘domesticated’ me by cooking doing household chores and for a while I thought wow a loyal stay at home girl in LA – what are the chances. On her side she says I treat her better than japanese men, and our babies would be so ‘cute’.
Naturally when she left I missed her, especially since shes been trying to make me ‘hate her’ cos she is “back in japan life is so different”. I am so fucking thankful she did after reading this thread. All those emo times listening to postrock music and dreaming of flying to japan on a whim makes me wana puke now. I am seeing almost point-by-point templates because of what i see similiarities of her and her mom – the fridgidness of the mother to her husband, fathers “funny” obsession with school girl magazines, mothers vibrator. this mother has only held part time jobs which she uses the money for herself, takes trips like she just got out of jail for weeks without informing anyone (talking about the mother still) and many more. I remember casually saying ‘they live like roomates so which one has a lover’. I bring out the mother because I see so many similarities of this girlfriend and mother(she was the only child). I thought my mother has issues, but comparatively, my mom looks like Mother Theresa – amusing since its not like this ex girlfriends parents are in constant state of crisis, just its like living a bottled placid state of nightmare.
I do realize that im what some referred to as ‘junior’ here, but this thread has me turned off marriage completely. Im sure as hell gonnna miss the cooking and the low maintenance but better than to be trapped with all the innocent look.
Would def appreciate any advice but for now Im going to fuck that polish girl without feeling guilty !