With maid cafes where pretty young girls that ooze submissiveness to their “masters”, and “shuccho health” (出張ヘルス, basically, dial-a-prostitute) and soap-lands (sensual bathing houses with soapy special service) to vending machines for porn, and specialty shops with used high school girl underwear; Japan, at least on the surface appears one of the most sexually proactive nations in the world. Japanese men are as perverted (if not more perverted) than those in other countries, and as for the ladies, on top of being naturally feminine (with petite sexy bodies, skin that doesn’t seem to change complexion from childhood, pretty faces and silky black hair), the women of Japan have no misconceptions about what style – clothes, perfume and make up – makes a man stop in his tracks, and rouse that tingle in his loins.
When interacting with others, sex and everything surrounding it is fair game for a topic of conversation in Japan and, it is certainly not frowned upon by religious groups or society at large as it is in the USA and other countries. When it comes to secreting sexual hormones and sexuality in general, almost nothing is taboo in Japan – until that is, the day one gets married, or so it seems. Indeed in stark sexual contrast, Japan may be suffering from a sexual drought, where being totally open about sex and being sexy in general, doesn’t seem to be converted into the ins-and-outs of baby making when it comes to married couples.
Shown in these statistics, a recent survey by Japan’s health ministry found that as many as one-third of all marriages in Japan are sexless. The problem is now so widespread that the government fears it is a major contributor to the dramatic plunge in Japan’s birthrate (now only 1.28 births per woman). This sexless phenomenon is not only found in those relationships that are plunging down the drain toward divorce, but to the contrary, more and more couples that consider themselves healthily married (and have no intention of separating), have not had sex with each other in the last month or more (the common definition of “sexless” in Japan), with many saying that they have not had sex together in the last 6 months to one year.
According to the most recent survey of 41 nations last October, the average Japanese has intercourse 45 (and according to Bayer Pharmaceuticals as low as 17) times a year, compared with the global average of 103. Japan is repeatedly at the bottom of the list. Last year it trailed Singapore, which was 28 shags a year higher!
The term “sexless”, was first used in Japan in the early 1990s, but now is instantly recognizable to the Japanese as a universally understood concept, and widely discussed in the media. There are books on the subject and thousands websites and heartbreaking blogs discussing sexless Japan, while letters on the subject fill agony columns on “dear doctor”-type sites.
One in five sexless couples say they view sex simply as a nuisance. A small number cite the lack of a private space, because children or elderly parents often sleep just the other side of a paper-thin door, leading many married couples to even sleep in separate rooms. Mitsui Home announced recently in an Asahi Newspaper article, that in 30% of the new houses they build, the couples are asking for 2 “master” bedrooms. This is a shocking statistic, which shows that sexless couples want to continue living their lives together – separately! “We are sort of room-mates rather than a married couple”, one 31-year-old man, who had not had sex with his wife for two years, told the Asahi Shinbun.
There are many other theories about why the Japanese become less inclined to raunchy evenings in the sack together, but likely it is a mixture of some of these:
- Stress of work/life in Japan (maybe the taihen cloud?)
- Lack of understanding, and usage of contraception, especially “the pill” (who wants to use condoms with their wife!?), making sex with your wife viable only when you want to have a baby
- Abundance of 不倫 (furin, or extra-marital) relationships
- More and more Japanese women choosing career over family
- A tendency among Japanese married couples to feel an aversion to sex with their spouse, not because they dislike one another, but rather because they feel that they have more of a sister-brother relationship; the sanctity of which would be destroyed with a repulsive incest-like feeling, by what westerners would consider normal conjugal relations
The last point is an interesting one, as in the past, it has been traditionally Japanese women who complained that they couldn’t see their hubby “as a member of the opposite sex.” But in the last few years, there’s been an exponential increase in men who can’t view their wives as sexual partners either. While it is true that many Japanese married couples seem to be sexless in nature, they key thing to remember is that this certainly does not mean that they lack the desire for sexual fulfillment. While marriage and children may bring on a sex drought in the home, Japanese people who want (and in the case of most men, need) sex do not simply abstain from sex because they cannot see the feminine qualities in their own wife, or the sexual attraction of their hard working husband.
Japanese men love their companies; they live for work, and many don’t even think it is a problem if they don’t have sex with their wives. They have pornography and the sex industry (soap lands, cabaret bars, and dial-a-girl services, and trips to Taiwan) to take care of their needs, but their wives have nowhere to go. They just suffer in silence.. or do they? The divorce rate in Japan has nearly doubled in the past 10 years, with more women blaming their sexually inactive, as opposed to sexually errant, husbands for break-ups. Though they may not be seeking sexual pleasure from their better halves, married Japanese women are seeking intimacy from other sources (many even claim to have a sex addiction), leading double lives – being the good mother, while at the same time seeking out “Leroy” the lover, who is always lurking, and ready to fulfill her every desire.
Japan is full of temptation, and it doesn’t matter whether you are a housewife or salary-man, there is plenty of raunchy action waiting out there – if that is what you desire. Furin sites to find a (extra marital) “sex friend” partner are just as rampant in Japan as in other countries, however they are much more widely used by women in Japan to solve their sexless quandaries. For the more conservative ladies, sites like mixi.jp – which are neutrally classed as “social networking” spaces – are abound with profiles (men and women) looking for partners to secretly spruce up their sexless, but otherwise happily married lives.
Many Japanese marriages may be sexless, but this is only a statistic about the state of sex within marriage itself. In fact, there may be a good reason for the sexless condition of marriages here – Are the Japanese getting enough of the good stuff outside their marriages to keep them happy? I certainly think so.
Japanese people will never be sexless as individuals; therefore Japan is not sexless, so don’t let mere statistics confuse the situation!
(If you are married in Japan, or married to a Japanese, let us know what you think of “Sexless Japan” by leaving a comment below!)
thanks for the advice Timmy 🙂
I’ve got a plan, getting organized. Luckily I’m in the south (don’t want to reveal my exact location for anonymity reasons) so as far from Fukushima as possible, i don’t feed my family beef, and I’m doing other stuff to limit radiation exposure. But yeah.. that’s another worry.
I just don’t want to be middle aged at thirty, and I’m pretty certain my own mother has a better sex life than me right now, as she has got herself a boyfriend after divorcing my father (something she needed to do).
I’ve got so much energy and life inside me. God..
Plumblossom:
I think that venting your frustrations here might actually get you some attention of potential toyboy candidates living in Japan, so perhaps you should reveal your location or contact info if you want to have some fun 😉 As a gentlemen, I’d volunteer myself, if it was not for my (so-far happy) marriage and living in Kansai region.
Timmy:
Speaking of Japan, it seems quite habitable to me, so can you please direct me to the “evidence of the danger” you mentioned above? I am only aware of increased radiation around Fukushima, and some hot spots (Cesium…) in Tohoku, but I am not aware of any serious health risks of daily life southward from Tokyo. What does it mean “Japan is finished”? I don’t want to leave yet…
Can an admin give mitaboy my email address!
I have a few questions:
I like Japanese girls, but I don’t plan on ever getting married.
Do you think it is ok to have Japanese girlfriends then?
Kasaman,
Take my advice.
Have a Japanese girlfriend. Have a dozen. Knock yourself out.
DO NOT MARRY ONE.
Marry the girl and it’s GAME OVER.
…And then you write on this message board how miserable your life is….
Thanks.
I don’t know if this is off topic:
I’m currently seeing a Japanese girl, we are both in our early twenties studying at college.
We told each other that we like each other, but never agreed formally to be bf and gf.
We hold hands and hug. That’s it. I’ve only known her two weeks so far.
She came over and I kissed her but she didn’t kiss back really. I asked what is wrong, and she said it is because she is shy and not confident. I stopped kissing her. She said she missed the last train, so we slept in the same bed, but just hugging.
She may be a vrigin. Her friend told me that she has only had one bf in Japan before. He was Japanese.
Any ideas about if I should try to kiss her again or not?
she seems like of those “cute” girls that arent into sex very much…
Kasaman,
If you want to have sex with her, you could probably pull it off.
If you want to have PASSIONATE sex with her, forget it.
She IS one of those squeaky “cute” (kawaiiiiiiiiiiiii ne!) girls who isn’t into sex, and while she may grow into a obatarian housewife, the sex drive will remain firmly at zero.
It’s really a question of what YOU want.
Thanks Heinrich.
Be-aware not to get sucked into a relationship with one of them and expect 180 degree expressions of emotions. As in today she seems to like you and tomorrow you are hated and ignored. Japanese women are mental cases for sure, my advice is to stick and move.
I’m married to a Japanese woman and we have two kids. Sometimes family and work life kicks our asses, but we try to have sex every chance we get. I’ve found being honest about desires and kinks (and encouraging her to do the same) has worked well over the past decade.
I’ve noticed a lot of blame on the wives in this comment thread; if you were having great sex before marriage (and kids) and now you aren’t, step back and take a look at the ways you treat her differently and see if there’s anything you can change to get your relationship back closer to how it used to be. It may legitimately be a one-sided issue for some couples but in a lot of cases both sides of the marriage are part of the problem.
I agree xo9, there are always two sides or maybe 3 to every story.
I married my Japanese wife about 8 years ago and sure things get tough but we enjoy a good sex life. We are both in our 40s and she keeps me satisfied.
I have been married to a Japanese woman for over 10 years now. We waited a long time to have our child, mostly because I wanted to wait. Before our child was born, our sex life was good. I always made sure she got her enjoyment before I got mine. Since our child was born we have had actual intercourse once or twice. Oral exchanges happened maybe once or twice as well. The last time anything happened was over a year ago.
We recently moved to Japan because of unforeseen events outside our control. People close to me in my home country strongly recommended I divorce her there instead of moving here. She was shockingly uninvolved as a mother. I was concerned about whether or not a lawyer would be able to keep our child from boarding an international flight. I was worried about her taking our child to Japan while I was out of the house.
After just a few weeks of working full time and our child attending daycare, he no longer speaks English. She readily agrees to speak English to him, but never actually does it. She complains when I study Japanese at home and refuses to speak Japanese to me. An outsider would think these things were connected and that she was trying to drive a wedge between me and our child. I am beginning to believe that myself.
I have been hurt and upset by her total lack of concern regarding sex. It disturbs me that my child rarely utters a word of English. My wife receives compliments about the beauty of our child everywhere she goes with him. She has zero interest in sex now. She has no use for me beyond my income. She is perfectly happy with the way things are.
I am tired of taking care of my own needs. However, I am sick of looking at her face. She no longer turns me on. She didn’t gain weight. Her breasts are no longer milk bags. I don’t see her more as a mother or sister than a wife. She is simply a bitch. She is unbelievably selfish, just like one of her parents. Maybe she always was and I simply got sex often enough not to worry about the lack of a nice personality.
It took me several days at work to read this entire thread. It was cathartic. It was helpful to know my experience is not unique. It was a little depressing to find out how prevalent it is. I am trying to change my outlook regarding life and marriage, at least with a Japanese person. I am trying to stop wondering “Why me?” and starting asking “Why not me?” I need to stop waiting for her to be nice to me and just move on.
@Way_down_south
I feel really bad to read the extent that this has happened to you, believe me, I feel you pain. I share many of the same things of two different fronts, a first marriage with children that a wedge was driven between me and them and a current J-wife.
Concerning the J-wife, as I am sure you are already know this life you are living is “Indeed” never going to change. She played her master game of chest, used her patience and ended up in a lifestyle that only a J-wife would love. For some reason they never love, in fact they do not know how to love….yes they can fake it and often do in front of strangers or even the once in awhile flash of affection. But its all just an act. I am convinced that my J-wife as a true undiagnosed personality disorder. After I saw this early in our marriage it actually scared me into a vasectomy, having two previous children made it an easy choice as well.
My life since our marriage has done nothing but take a slow but relentless spiral down hill. This situation is the epitome of “Sunk Cost”, meaning that the time and energy that I have put into it makes it hard to leave although I can plainly see it only getting worse. Like a stock that keeps sinking every day but you continue to hold in hopes of recovering some of your loses. Fact is, this stock will never go up again yet I continue to hold now because its so low that I have nothing more to loose. I wish I would have had the courage to end it before we hit year one when I saw the signs.
However this whole thing has been a huge learning lesson for me. Not so much about J-women because writing them off was easy, but a lesson about myself.
Good luck to you my friend, we are with you in spirit and wishing you the best.
Coconut,
I feel your pain. Divorce sucks, but it offers a hope of finding “true love”.
I have no regrets about divorcing my J-wife, in fact, I should have done it earlier.
Stay strong my brother.
Folks, i have to admit, I’m just speechless. It is an amazing forum and exactly what I needed. I would have never ever thought that it is such a burning issue and that this thread is still running. Spent hours to read through (although I’ve not finished yet i absolutely want to write sth) and was surprised by the partly very good quality of it. And I would thank some of the writers, I really got some very good insights and it definitely helped to face to truth, something I haven’t done for a quite long time.
I would really like to join the group so I may provide you my story, you may already know what will come because it covers a lot of things i read already, but still knowing someone will read it, helps.
I (male, west European) am in a relationship with a Japanese for slightly more than 5 years. As already heard many times before, the beginning was just great. I used to date a quite westernized Japanese girl who really enjoyed sex (I thought). Spending years abroad I was really convinced that this would sustainable to some extent. We just could not stand without touching each other as we started to be a couple. Almost every day we had sex. If she was not in the mood for receiving, she still gave me some bj’s or just by hand, sometimes three in two hour or until i could not any more (some numbers where wished above).
Frankly saying, it was very spontaneous and good! And i was in my early twenties, and she just one year older.
I already had experience that time, international as well, and with a ten years older hot Hungarian woman, but still, miles away from Don Juan.
That said, it good times were roughly the case for about one year. After that (we both tended to be more occupied) it dropped but it was still okay. It tended to be an average of 2-3 times per week.
I can live with that, because I really love my wife!
But then, last year the marriage came… But this was actually, contrary to other stories, a huge boost for our sex life, the fire was definitely back (like in the beginning) for about half a year.
But then, suddenly as soon as she started working quite a hard job in my home-country, it dropped and i now have exactly the same as so many of you guys mentioned above.
I now have serious trouble to keep the fire running and we now have sex 1 a week, which for me is too low. Im fu_king 27.
And as already heard from many of you, the passion is not there anymore as it used to be (and it definitely was there).
I tried and tried to talk with her, but you know it is not easy (even though I speak Japanese at an acceptable level and dealt partly with Japanese studies at college).
Suddenly, what was very surprising, she searched a Japanese sex counseling dvd, which was just awful. The guy just kept talking and talking and doing “the things” to the girl, while she was just lying there like a dead fish. But criticizing that it ended in a very severe dispute.
Later tried again, and there were some good hints btw. but none of them were quite sustainable.
So, if that was a counseling (!) and not (!) porn video, where you see some kind of s*it, what can one expect?
I also spotted that there is a tendency to treat me like a son (which I hate). I’m really wondering what have her changed to behave like that. Also spending hours on housework, but not having time for me is a hard feeling to bear.
During the last year I argued with my wife and also with myself, that once a week should be enough (and regarding many of your comments, i really should be very very happy about that), but actually I’m not. Otherwise, the life with her is perfect. She’s taking care of everything in the house (which i do not demand), but just there is this thing.
That said, I hoped that changing the place of living (to Japan) would help our relationship to become more intimate, but it did not.
Thanks to the lecture of this forum i now wrapped up my situation and as a consequence, I’m going to look for a girlfriend and afterwards may tell her that, even though it is fuc*ing brutal in my opinion and it is completely against my moral.
But since it is not a big deal here in Tokyo and it seems to be quite easy; I will give it a try.
So, see maybe some of you guys around roppongi this weekend!
Any comments really appreciated, even though it became very long.
Btw. I now superficially 10 couples all mixed (Western men, j-women) but I did not talk with the man about this topic yet. But looking back now, there are signs which shocked me, e.g. the woman demanding a lot of the man, speaking badly of him in Japanese and sleeping with the child, getting him to buy a family car etc.
So, I’ll start talking with people I know about this topic and provide them the link to this forum…
@way_down_south
“I am trying to change my outlook regarding life and marriage, at least with a Japanese person”
Hell yeah, so did I! But considering that sexless marriage is really quite common all over the globe (including my divorced parents who are def not Japanese), i think that it is more or less common everywhere, but the structure of the japanese society does not help to address the problem adequately.
Excuse my double post, but writing here really helps to get some steam off.
UPDATE:
In the West, my marriage would already be finished. Here in Japan, we damn foreigners have no rights so I’m stuck in this situation. My wife’s parents are basically divorced-while-legally -married. It should be no surprise to me that she thinks that situation is natural.
I’m not going to change my wife’s outlook on marriage or life or anything else. She got a kid, she got to move back to her home country with excellent English skills, she’s close to her parents, we have no sex, I work a lot of hours. To her, everything is perfect.
Since I can’t change her outlook, I am still working to change my own. She doesn’t like that I don’t give a shit about her opinions anymore. I try not to be bitter about it. I try to let the nagging just roll off my back.
I’m forcing myself to be independent of her. I don’t ask her to handle anything for me anymore. I can tell she doesn’t like it when I accomplish something without her help. I see that she wants to feel like she has the power to decide what I can and cannot do. She wants me to have to depend on her.
I am pretty bitter about the 180 degree turn my wife took after we had our child. I still depend on her for my immigration status. Until I get PR or citizenship, I have to keep swallowing my anger. I wrote some things on a piece of paper. I carry it hidden in a pocket of my wallet.
Don’t need her for anything
Be disinterested
Be your own person
Be casually friendly in return to kindness;
otherwise, ignore her.
Nothing bothers you
Nothing touches you
After I finished reading this entire thread, I started researching the topic of marriage in Japan. I still depend on this selfish monster for my legal status. I learned that unlike the West, divorce is very difficult to get when both parties do not agree. There is an expectation that after kids, men will look elsewhere for sex. Sex for money is easy to find (at least for Japanese-looking men). After having kids, women will not have to pretend they like that dirty business anymore. After they want another kid they are miraculously interested again. By appointment only, mind you!
I learned that if you’re like me and already have a kid together, you had better guard your own interests. Men in general have few rights to their children in Japan. Foreigners have even less power. Have enough cash squirreled away to get out of the country and file for divorce from there if things go nuclear. Secure your child’s foreign passport, hide your registered seal （jitsuin じついん 実印), and file an anti-divorce form every six months. If your kids go to daycare, make sure it isn’t unusual for you to drop them off and pick them up. Know where her main friends and extended family live. These easy preparations require no confrontation and can prevent a lot of the horror stories you read about mothers going crazy when an international marriage falls apart.
EXAMPLE DIVORCE REFUSAL FORM
http://www.rikon-navi.jp/shiryou/syoshiki/non_recive_divorce_notice.html
Like some of the other posters on here, I was always against adultery (in principle). After living without sex for well over a year, self-preservation has finally kicked in. I just started doing research about how foreigners who are obviously NOT Japanese can find outlets in Japan. All I know so far is that it’s best to hook up with someone else whose marriage is dead, has kids, and has as much to lose as you do. Now I just need to find out how to meet those kind of people…
“I’m forcing myself to be independent of her. I don’t ask her to handle anything for me anymore. I can tell she doesn’t like it when I accomplish something without her help. I see that she wants to feel like she has the power to decide what I can and cannot do. She wants me to have to depend on her.”
Very good point!
I finally put myself together to talk about various issues of marriage in japan in general and our case in particular. Took about 4 hours but was a good start point, because it was surprising for her that I spoke that points up so clearly. So, let’s see how it goes on. Will keep you posted. It turned out that the mother son relation from above seemed to be quite an issue in our case.
So, keeping independence is a very good point for both your self esteem and for being the husband and not the sun (fact she did not like your independence prove that, imho).
Do not let her feel as you would be her son!
And do not allow her to have power over you including your sex drive.
Adultery is not really that what I want, either! But just by getting the awareness that i could do it gave me some kind of boost in power to mention all the difficult points.
But yeah, sometimes it is too late to talk anyway…
I consider doing following (so far only tried out 1, which was quite ok imho, got a message from the girl the day after, but said i was busy):
1. there are a lot of nightclubs in roppongi (ordinary ones not those from the blacks) and some bars in shibuya are quite a good choice.
–> Ill be there tonight btw…
2. teach english and post announces in the internet
3. international parties
good luck to those who need it!
I know it is highly unlikely but I wish a native Japanese person would come here to help us explore this further.
This phenomena needs to be brought to the forefront in order to be resolved. Its a situation that too many people are living in both foreign/Japanese and Japanese/Japanese. Its very counter productive and is not a functional relationship that promotes mental or physical health. Too many Japanese have accepted this as the norm and resolved themselves to live a life of misery.
@leanback
Reading your posts (and other recent ones too eg Way Down South) make me realise (again) that this problem with J women really is so prevalent.
I have posted on here before and been through a fair bit with this issue.
I have tried adultery and it kind of worked for a while after I told her what had been happening. She pulled her socks up, so to speak, and things were what I would call normal. But after a couple of months things started to slide and two years on we’re back where we were before I got the GF.
To be honest, I think Heinrich is right when he mentions that divorce is basically the only solution for this thing. BUT I have a kid who, if I were to divorce, would probably never see again – that would destroy both of us as we’re so close.
So, I too am looking once again… after all I am only human.
I han’t been here in awhile but just reading and (OMG)you guys really take this loneliness and affection problem seriously. I felt like the world is on your shoulder and it is such a big problem. I can’t help but laugh out loud for “Way-down-south” secret note.If you can’t get divorce, or get out of the situation, find friends that you can go to the party with sometimes, watch movie,play the guitar,chat ,chat,chat and ponder how lonely life can be. I did it all.
@Arnie
You’re probably right… I tried to hook up with some chicks this saturday, but it felt so completely wrong to me that I just could not do it and go for the deal. I want my wife to be my hot affair and not some random ***! (I’m not depending on her, she does not get my salary nor are divorce laws in my home country against me, “not yet” at least)
But i don’t want to hold back my latest tries from you, because I really suffered of this situation and that board helped so much, literary the scales fell from my eyes.
Yesterday evening, she started the discussion by her majesty herself (complaining why I treat her so harsh the whole day, because I blocked every attempt to dominate me and had a flirt with a hot j-girl next to her!) and wanted to continue it, actually it was for the first time that she spoke up such kind of things.
(Equation here: Speaking up essential and important problems = treating other people harsh and disturb the calm and peace…. NOT for me actually, I’m not willing to accept that any longer!)
But at first there was a lot of this subtle resistance which I only know from the Japanese girls so far.
Said that, you need really to be patient and focused otherwise you lose your path so easily I felt.
After one hour or so with endless patience and really insisting on my points, I felt that I could get her to understand my message and break through the wall.
(
But this is so difficult; imho you really need to have a deeper understanding of the Japanese society/way of communication in order to distract her arguments of her being Japanese. “You know in Japan, in jp relationships…” –> Honey, I’m in Japan, talked to Japanese boys & girls and I know X, but this is not what I want with you. Point
Let the silence work for you instead against you, as it is normally the case.
)
I mainly focused on the lack of affection to me / our relationship and the purpose that sex is not just something she gives me, but we have together!
I thought this is better than just focusing of how many times you have sex, speaking this out and talk just about sex itself causes a terrible resistance and triggers the so famous “mental switch off button” (you know what I mean)!
After half an hour of silence…. Suddenly, she came up some unaffiliated evident lacks of her affection feelings to me (which I haven’t mentioned with intent), that’s why I thought she really is able to think about our relationship and also wants to have it in a better way.
She told me, that after she got independent she loses interest in sex and affection with me, because she assumed that I will be always around, but now she knows that I won’t! She got the point, now I can build up from there
After some silence, she asked me, if I want sex from (!) her! I said NO (I also meant that)!
I want no sex, I want her affection. And that woke up her inner animal. So, I had a really good time (best for over one year, m****fu**king bs).
The affection from the beginning was definitely back! (That was no fake at all)
MY THOUGHTS OF IMPROVEMENT AND WHAT I’M DOING FROM NOW ON:
I know that it is really hard, but stop watching porn regularly, (I really was used to do it actually), but it weakens your mind and distracts you being focused, so you’re less male to her which is the absolute killer! (I’m not religious too much nor are my moral standards against porn, but I really doubt that it is good for your mental health and your hunter instinct!)
If you have, let her put the wedding ring away and tell her that she is your gf, worked perfect to me, just as simple thing like that!
Do something together, like dancing or something like that.
Concerning that our situation is a common problem all over the world and in all societies (I have not the slightest doubt that it is), I think the unique society constellation (not western and never being colonialized with our morals) makes it particular difficult to deal with it in an appropriate way.
So, it is your task (the western part) to speak it up and destroy the harmony. As for you it is not harmony, but the hell, you have nothing to lose.
Make her clear that you are not her enemy, but the anchor in a cold world which she should treat with respect and take care like of a fire.
DOUBTS:
Concerning your writing, I doubt it will work for a longer run.
Is it really worth to write almost 1000 words in a completely anonymous forum and trying to fix a situation where the evidence that there is little chance to succeed is so low? Why investing so much
You surely come up with some arguments why also my try cannot work (why should it be exceptional in my case…)
And consolidating my situation, the worst point is that I really wanted and actually still want to have kids with her. But under the given circumstances, I have severe (!) doubts that this will work, so I’m back to the rubber…
The kid makes the situation so so hard… oh my god… thanks lord I don’t have one so far…
I’m sure all the gaijin are gonna lose their kid when it comes hard by hard in Japan. Discussed this issue with a Professor of Japanese studies.
If you love your kid and you are completely sure that it has a better life with you than with your spouse, I think you can just escape the country together with your kid’s gaijin passport (which is like a diamond) and tell no one where you’re going to live (maybe your mother or brother if they are close (!!!) to only you, and know how you suffer, because other people definitely do NOT understand how these “aaah so cute” Japanese girls can really be. They often forget that there are women, man, just as simple as that. It’s so clear that they love their kids, look at women from South America, Italy, Spain etc.).
Sorry for the sheer length of my post again, but there is so much to say….
leanback,
It sounds like your wife is very busy, working and doing all the housework. This might be another reason why she’s less interested in sex. If she has more time to rest and relax, this might help. She could work less, or you could help with the housework.
@McLovin
I wish I had an explanation as simple as that. But she quitted work four months ago when we came to Japan. No work since then, and the housework it is not such a big deal. I did everything alone for over two years (as I was single), and it was definitely not stressful nor so much time-consuming…
Hi guys, how are you doing?
After long days of arguing with myself, I chose the adultery path and so it comes that I’m dating some girls, which actually feels quite great (besides some slight bitterness)!
What are your views regarding that? There were some comments about adultery, but does anyone believe that having one girlfriend after another is really a sustainable solution?
I really doubt that, but at least the feeling of being isolated, lost and rejected has just gone in one instance.
Maybe as a starting point it is fine to recover your selfesteem and to look if there is something to fix, but maybe a final cut is inevitable and should be done more sooner than later…
I would be really interested to hear some opinions, as people to talk about this topic are very rare these days…
Leanback:
When I worked in Japan 25 years ago I kind of did not know what to think of the married co -workers that had girlfriends on the side. I thought it was wrong at the time. Now I am just like them in that I have a girlfriend. She is only 23 years old and very attractive. The young age makes it strange for me in that she is two years younger than my daughter. It is what is I guess. It sure does feel good to this 52 year old man that a young pretty girl finds an interest in me. I want to fair to this girl. I want her to have a great future and I will not hold her back from finding someone else that can give her a long term relationship. I can not do that for her. So that is the dilemma. Can I be fair to this girl and be seeing her? It feels good for my self esteem to be with her but what does it do to her self esteem? Is it possible to keep it everything drama free? At this time we both enjoy each others company. Neither one of us is clingy. We are both respectful of each others life outside our own. We do not demand time from each other. I think the relationship will have to stay on the light side in order for it to stay fun.
Timmy
@leanback
I understand you but please please please remember that if GFs hang around long enough they have a nasty habit of becoming wives and believe me the cycle just kicks off again.
@Arnie,
I’m also convinced that it will be the same cycle over and over again, in fact I already can notice it, the very beginning is also some kind of repetitive, so why the rest should be that much different…
But yeah, I already have some kind of feelings for my new date, gosh…
@Timmy, it sounds somehow very cool (promising future for me though), but I see your dilemma. I also don’t want to harm her (gf) in any way, but the more intense it gets the harder it will be not to do it. It’s difficult.
I think as long as you follow just the casual dating path without getting too serious and without some kind of commitments, it won’t prevent her from looking for other guys.
I also want to try to keep it as light as possible (but you all know that this is not the aim of Japanese relationships, so be prepared)
In my case the age difference is now “only” 6 years, but I think this is even worse… I’m just waiting for the question: “Why don’t we live together?”….
Conserning what I’m doing, I sometimes have real problems to look at myself in the mirror… It is a real dilemma.
My reason for doing this *** is that I really hope that I can transport the drive from dating other girls into my marriage and get my wife’s attraction back somehow…
But yeah, it is definitely not fair for no one involved as I’m just using people which I have feelings for. And this just before Christmas…
Despite the irony of the situation: Merry Christmas to all (enjoy as much as it is possible in this country…)
Merry Christmas.
I am sick of my sham marriage. I have started withdrawing and detaching myself emotionally from my marriage. I have always been patient with my wife’s incessant bitching but now I have zero tolerance. The smallest bit of nagging and we start barking and snapping at each other like wolves over a carcass.
Speaking of the guilt associated with adultery, life is too short to be unhappy all the time. Next spring I will be going on a business trip throughout Asia. I have two years of desire and unmet needs backed up. When I come back to Japan I will be lucky if I can walk straight. I will probably feel very guilty after the first time. I’m planning to get plenty of practice. I hope to eventually find someone else trapped in a dead marriage so we can find comfort and excitement together between the sheets.
Every time I look at my wife I feel like I got tricked. I’m trapped with her because my child is more important to me than life itself. I’m hoping some other woman will be a nicer person, but I know any relationship would probably just turn into the same thing all over again. Like Bugs Bunny said, “Aren’t they all witches inside?”
@Timmy
I am very happy for you, and no matter what your relationship is or amounts too with this person enjoy it. Shallow or deep, and no matter how brief take it for what it is and enjoy yourself.
OK, here’s another update. Check back a few months up to see the last one. We’ve been in therapy since then, and it’s going pretty well. Not perfect but much, much better. The therapist basically said to her that it’s unacceptable to not have sex if she loved me. If she really didn’t love me, then we needed to think about getting a divorce. She said she did. The therapist then told her that there are other options too if she really didn’t want sex, like going outside for sex, but she didn’t want that so she worked on becoming more comfortable with her sexuality which had been repressed from living in inaka I guess.
Before we rarely had sex, maybe once in a few months, now it’s a few times a week. She will dress up in lingerie occasionally, will make noises during sex sometimes, used a vibrator several times, masturbated herself during foreplay and during sex when I asked her to try. She was getting a cold recently and so I asked her to give me a handjob instead, and she did it. First time I’ve ever gotten that before. She also initiates occasionally which is great. And she doesn’t refuse as much when I initiate. She asked about going to a female-centric sex store to check out, and was willing to watch some porn. Basically opening herself up becoming comfortable with herself. It’s not natural for her but she is trying, I have to admit that.
For my part I try to be more attentive, communicate more and it’s better. Without the therapist pushing her I know the same old not interested bs would continue. No doubt about it. I just have to see what next year brings. Hope it continues.
Hey Doug, this sounds really good and quite promising. I’m very impressed.
Where did you go to therapy, was it in Japan?
Would be really, really glad about a good recommendation…
I was also thinking about it once in a while recognizing that I do not have the will/power anymore for the try to cure the relationship by myself alone, but I was not very successful in finding something useful in Tokyo yet…
But now, I really think I should consider going to a therapy with my wife, because having a quite young gf besides my marriage (and she does not know anything about it (yet)) and not being able to offer her some kind of stableness on one hand, and cheating my wife on the other hand is also not that life I would like to have…
Frankly saying, I hate myself for doing that!
Has anyone of you other guys ever gone to some kind of therapy and had any success?
Another point I would be very interested in:
Do you guys have someone to talk about this kind of topics in the real life?
I now know just 2,3 people in a similar situation, I can occasionally talk to, but unfortunately it is not possible to the extent I would like to.
Having someone on the side can develop into a sticky situation.
In my first marriage I cheated for 10 out of the 13 years it lasted. I tried to dump my gf after about year 5 when I saw that she was really wasting her time with me…she was too good of a person for the temporary relationship we had. She deserved a man to herself, I thought. But after her persistence and my weakness I went back to her and we continued. Finally through a long process I managed to end our relationship, it was hurtful to both of us but necessary.
Some years later I was at a restaurant and met this 80 year old lady [maybe even older] and she took it upon herself to school me on women. Everything she taught me was dead on, even when she told me about having a mistress. She told me that men will feel guilty about having a mistress because they feel like they owe them something. But the fact is women who choose to be a mistress find joy in no other type of relationship. Long story short, I should have kept her as my mistress…she was as happy as she had ever been and so was I, and now many years later she is still single and we both have not enjoyed the companionship we shared as lovers since.
Too bad I burned that bridge and can never go back.
Now having had my eyes opened I see things a bit different, more like they are and less like I want or imagine. My J-wife knows her short comings and I know that as long as quiet is kept I can have a gf on the side without question.
Very interesting story. Can imagine that this had to be quite interesting taling with the obaasan about this kind of things…
Sounds somehow very logic, but still the bitter taste having a gf beside has first to be eliminated.
Now then, when do you in tell your gf that you are married or do you just try to hide it?
For myself, I would have liked to hide it as long as possible, as I think it may frighten too many (especially young) girls to get involved with you as a “married” man, because the idea of marrying you in the back of their mind is not realistic, even though just playing around is usually fine in most cases…
@leanback
I think you should tell your gf about your marriage. It is unfair to her if you dont, and besides, why keep her around if she will turn away if she knows that you’re married (a high chance that she will know sooner or later!) If she likes you enough, she will stay.
You should be careful though – there are many kinds of women around. @Coconut had a gf that would not have mind being a gf all her life, but some dont! Also, your wife would be another problem. While some may keep quiet, to some it can be a unalterable damage in trust, and things usually go downhill from there. To play this game, you should first know your girls well. If not, not only do you not lose in one battle (the wife or gf), you might end up being a loser in both. Even if this is Japan, divorce rates are rising.
Honestly, I feel that a gf is a short term solution. If you really think that you and you’re wife’s relationship has no more hope, then you should get a divorce and not let her suffer as well.
Just curious – since you got a gf, what would your reaction be if your wife got a bf?
Simply put.
If you do not Love and Care-for [a thing] how can you expect that [thing] to want to stay around? In fact should you even expect that [thing] to stay?
For this reason divorce rates are justified in going up and marriage rates are justified in decreasing.
If people would Love and Care-for each other for example the way they would Love and Care-for a Dog, you can expect happy lasting marriages and a true benefit from being married in the first place.
Until then you can expect all sorts of mis-deeds as people try to satisfy their natural urges.
Coconut:
I agree with you about if only people would care for each other like they love and care for a dog. My wife gives more physical affection for our cat than she does for me. I know this would never change even if I became the most perfect man towards her. She often says she shows her love to me by cooking great meals. I guess I get this and for the most part she is a great wife. The only part that she totally sucks at is in being physically affectionate. Not only do we never have sex but she hates being touched. She even hates it more if I touch her or give her a kiss or a hug. Maybe I could stand it if at least she petted me like she does our cat. Since she does not I have gone to another women to satisfy my natural urges.
Timmy
Timmy,
Good for you Timmy, I very happy for you and hope you enjoy your time with your gf.
During my first marriage when I had a gf she knew I was married from the start, I think her knowing actually made things a lot easier.
Honestly Timmy, your wife seems a lot like my first wife. I found out some years after our marriage that what I suspected was true….which is she had been sexually abused as a child. What I did not know was to the extent that it happened and with who. I really think your wife may have been sexually abused as well, its more common than we think.
Happy New Year Timmy and enjoy!
Coconut:
My girlfriend also knew from the beginning that I was married. I think it would be very difficult to hide this for very long. My wife has pretty much verbally said that it is OK for me to get my needs met elsewhere. I think that this is a common arrangement for married couples in Japan.
I doubt very much if my wife was physically abused as a child. I have the best father and mother In Law in the world. They would have never abused their child or let someone abuse her. In addition my wife would not have allowed it. From what her sister has told me about my wife is that even as a child she was not afraid of standing up for herself or confrontation. I think the problem is that my wife was never touched as a child. Never given as much as a hug. Being raised in rural Japan I think she saw very little healthy physical affection among couples. Her parents sleep on futons feet away from each other for example. She had no experience with touch as a child so how could she relate to it as an adult.
Timmy
Guys, what about kissing? I’ve gone through the thread and there are a few references, but I was wondering about kissing-as-foreplay. Does it happen a lot after marriage? Is it something you get a lot of before marriage (like sex), but it disappears after marriage, or do Japanese girls dislike kissing (indoors) even before marriage?
I lived in Japan a few years ago, and one long-time Japanese girlfriend I had was a wonderful kisser. When I complimented here on that, she started crying! Apparently I was accusing her the equivalent of being a slut. I never understood that.
@leanBack, the therapy is in US not Japan, and originally I went to a Japanese therapist by myself one time and thought it was awful. So I decided to find a sex positive therapist. I found someone who is both a family therapist and a sex therapist so I knew she would be sex positive. I told my wife she was a family counselor while not highlighting the sex therapist part. She turned out to be great and my wife likes her as well.
Since the last update we have been to a sex shop and bought a vibrator and a sex card game. She has given me another hand job, we’ve had sex several more times, lingerie etc and it’s been good.
However, I think Timmy has described almost the exact situation my wife grew up in. Even though sex is better, her non-sexual intimacy is pretty much lacking. She won’t push me away like before, but she won’t initiate either. For example, I’ll go up to her and hug her and thank her for making dinner etc. She will hug back and thank me for something. But she will almost never hug me first. In bed I will cuddle with her but she won’t initiate cuddling with me. On the couch watching tv I will put my arms around her, but she will never initiate and put her arms around me. Personally as a guy, that’s not been a big dig deal to me, and the increased sex has more than made up for the lack of intimacy, but now that I think about it it’s kind of sad. The next time we go back to the therapist I’m going to try to see if anything can be done about this. It definitely goes back to lack of intimacy as a child growing up in rural Japan I’m sure of.
I guess it’s a very slow process for women to change and become more sexual and intimate. And they have to want to try otherwise there’s no point. So I guess you need to ask her whether she loves you, and if so whether she wants to try to make it work, and if not, ask her for other options open-endedly and see what she says. Maybe she would say get a gf on her own.
@yume, did you grow up in a western country?
If you asked me that half a year ago, I would have probably told you that I would have been really disappointed and terribly jealous.
I always thought that the declining of sex was just my fault, regardless how much I tried to be the “perfect” man.
I took it very personal which was very bad for my self-esteem (even though very well hidden).
But I’m now convinced that it is not just my fault and that to some extent it just does not seem to be appealing to get down with your husband even though the person is still the same.
But like the things are now, I would not care that much if she would have a nice bf, if it would help her to get more passion in the marriage, I think I would appreciate it in some ways.
I tried to propose her that in an indirect way, but she clearly told me she’s not interested.
I’m also not that afraid of ending up losing both at the moment…
But if she would do that, I assume that the slightest amount of affection will be taken out of
the marriage, so seems quite useless to think about it.
My aim is different instead; I try to take the thrill of dating with other women into my marriage, which is actually helpful at the moment (in term of more affection).
I can realize like two different behaviors. If we go out and do some date-like stuff, than she really changes, all the passion (like before marriage) comes back, but as soon as the atmosphere of marriage dominates the situation, the passion is just wiped out.
About telling your gf that you’re married. Did you guys really tell them this at your first date or just a few dates later? I’m really curious about your experiences regarding it as it will be a hot topic very soon for me…
And they really did not bother? My western perspective simply cannot understand that…
I also understand that you can’t hide it for too long, but I think you should know each other at least better; otherwise the risk of just stopping it is too high in my view, even though it is not fair for this young girl who may expect different than hanging out with a married guy…
Thank you doug, i also thought that this kind of therapy is not worth trying in japan.
You saved me a lot of time searching after it in Tokyo. Maybe I’ll try it once back home.
I also agree to what you guys mentioned about the puppy dog, in my situation it is very similar
and also to the affection from the parents, which is almost unseen.
But what I’m really astonished is the huge percentage of similarities in our situations…It’s often so similar that one just would not believe it…
“About telling your gf that you’re married. Did you guys really tell them this at your first date or just a few dates later? I’m really curious about your experiences regarding it as it will be a hot topic very soon for me…
And they really did not bother? My western perspective simply cannot understand that…”
Dear lean Back
I have had four different girl friends and I told each of them that I was married from the beginning. The first girlfriend was a Japanese woman that was a friend of a friend of mine. We developed the relationship four years after the birth of my second child. The relationship I had with my wife became sexless after our last child was born. I was sexually starved at the time, so I responded to this single woman’s advances. She knew I was married at the time and we were both in our mid-thirties. This woman was very affectionate sexually and she was good beyond any fantasy I had at the time. It just shows that Japanese women can be affectionate but most as a rule become sexless after a child comes. The relationship lasted about three years. We broke up and came together again about four or five times. Each time we came back together because we missed the great time we had with each other. We did try to become just friends but that never worked out because we both always lack the control not to have sex. She was bothered that I could not be with her whenever she wanted so that was one reason we often broke up. In addition she was a jealous type. She did get a job as a flight attendant so that ended the relationship in that she left town. After she left I did develop a since of guilt because of my religious beliefs. She called me about a year after she left and she wanted to see me when she came back into town. I told her no because of the guilt I had in having committed adultery. I knew the desire I had for her was so great that it would lead right back to sex.
I developed a relationship with the 2nd woman about four years ago. She was a member of the same club I attend. I had developed feelings for her and this became mutual. She initiated the relationship physically and I being starved for affection and lacking self-control responded to her advances. She knew I was married from the very beginning. Just like the first girlfriend we broke up and come together multiple times. The reason being she did not feel right about me being married and that we could not be open about our relationship. Each time we got together it would start friendly but in a short time it would again become sexual. Finally at last it has become only friendly and we are best of friends. I actually did spend the day with her a couple of days ago. She was suspicions if I had a new girlfriend. She did interrogate me and I did fess up that I did. She said she was happy for me.
The relationship with the third women was one that was just too fast and furious. I have a partnership with a sports bar in organizing an activity for the bar. One afternoon about 9 months ago I sat next to women at the bar and we had a great conversation. We bumped into each other about every two months and we would just basically say hi to each other. Last fall we bumped into each other again and I offered to buy her a drink. The conversation turned into her previous relationships and that she was now divorced. She asked about me and I told her that I was married. She was taken back and asked me why did her lead her on. I told her about the relationship I have with my wife. She said she understood and that she knows that European man have a similar arrangement with their wife and having a girlfriend on the side. I was kind of relieved in that now it was out that I was married and I could just become friends with this truly fun spirited woman. It was not to be in that she asked me to walk her to her car. That did led to a kiss, and more kissing and eventually having sex in her front seat. Luckily the windows fogged up to hide from those passing by. We were to meet up a couple of days later. She called me and said she had fun but had to cancel meeting up with me because she had thought about it and she felt she could not be with a married man. I bumped into her about three weeks ago at the bar. She said she had thought about me and I told her the same.
A few weeks after that fun evening in the car I did meet my present girlfriend. I met her at different bar. We again just happened to sit next to each other. She is black and just 23 years of age. We had a fun conversation and a great time together at the bar. We exchanged phone numbers. I was kind of wishing that she would not call me because of the age difference and the complications of having a girlfriend. She did call me back the next day. During that first call I did not tell her that I was married but I did tell her the following day over the phone. She did not have a problem with it and she said she would not judge me for it. It has been more than interesting to me because of the difference in our age and cultural back grounds. It was a trip for me as example to be the only middle age white person in a hip hop bar.
I cannot say that having a girlfriend on the side is the answer. I know myself well and in that I have almost no self-control when it comes to the advances of women. I do know from my experience that there are complications in having a girlfriend. It would be difficult to say that the fun with a girlfriend over rules the complications.
All that being said what is a sex starved married man to do?
Timmy
@leanback
No, I’m asian; grew up and living in an asian country (not japan though).
I am just interested to see the different perspectives people have.
Although I have my own side of the story, I don’t feel obliged to share it here… Good luck to you though! I don’t believe morals are everything, they only act as a measure to keep society. But that doesn’t mean I totally agree with adulterous affairs either.
@yume
This is an anonymous forum. Please do share “your side” of the story as it would greatly benefit everyone here…
Rest assured you will not be verbally attacked. A woman’s insight is greatly needed in this forum, be it Asian or other.
Dear Timmy
Thank you very much for your insightful explanations. Was really interesting to read!
“She called me and said she had fun but had to cancel meeting up with me because she had thought about it and she felt she could not be with a married man.”
That’s actually my very selfish worry and why I don’t say it at the beginning. I think, there is some time needed until she will be willing to try to understand my situation and see her benefits in it. Saying it too soon I fear that she will just fade out, because I approach girls like I wanna have their as gf (can’t do it different…)
But yeah, after a while there won’t be any choices I think, and I’ll have to tell it.
@Yume,
of course you are not obliged to share anything here. But if you would consider to share your thoughts of this story anyway, you won’t have anything to lose because like Coconut said, it is completely anonymous.
But you could really help a lot of people, because especially honest women insights to this topic are badly needed.
Reading through the forum helped me personally a lot. I started to talk to some friends I made in Japan since I moved here who are also in a relationship with Japanese women. And every one of these guys knew exactly what I meant but no one would ever try to talk about it because they thought it would just concern only them. Exactly the same thing I thought.
I was quite depressed for about a year about the situation (at my not so late 20ties nota bene)
but this is definitely over now and I really feel relieved somehow…
And that’s why I’m really thankful for all the people who talked so openly about their situations…
The link below is to a song by Tammy Wynette. I think if Japanese married women followed the lyrics in the song things would be a whole lot better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rr-neHxc-g
Haha, true that!
Too said that it is only in English… A good Japanese translation needed….
btw. Timmy, just out of curiousity, do you live in Japan?
“btw. Timmy, just out of curiousity, do you live in Japan?”
Dear LeanBack:
My wife and I lived in Japan for two years in the early 80’s. We have lived in the USA since that time.
The sad thing is most Japanese women already have an understanding of the message in the lyrics of the song Good Lovin. They know that their husband will go to another woman if they do not give some warming at night. However: for most of them and my wife included it is almost encouraged to have their husbands go to the arms of another women. Japanese wives just find it just too much work to be passionate with their husbands. It is just so much easier to have another women do that for them.
Tammy Wynette type women in Japan are pretty much nonexistent.
Timmy
Link to an article titled “Japan is Dying”.
http://www.henrymakow.com/japan_is_dying.html
Don’t be fooled by single Japanese women who behave sensual and wanton of sex. Before I married my Japanese wife, she initiated much sex on the beach, at the apartment, and going to Love Hotels. I married her 12 years ago and I’ve not had the same experience. In fact I’ve now been without sex for 10 years.
Ironically before I married, I experienced many monogomous relationships with many other cultures with me having romanitic sex 6 or 7 days a week (7days is a week), and on Saturday and Sunday I’d have sex 2 or 3 times a day.
I have 2 wonderful children and when they grow older into their late teens, I will dump my Japanese wife. I will never again marry a Japanese woman. I once was hurt, and then angry, but now I merely laugh at my sexless marriage.
Walking in Japan, often it enters my mind the many Japanese folks I walk past are not having sex, statistically.
I met a married japanese woman whose not had sex with her japanese husband for 2 years. He has yound girls as girlfriends, so I suggested that we go to a Love Hotel and she said, “You Americans…”. She declined yet she complains about not having sex. So silly are Japanese.
Every Western man I meet in Japan shares the same story with me. So take my advice and son’t believe a Japanese girlfriend who seems to like sex. It’s all fake and after marriage, a many might as well cut off his testacles.
In addition if sex is ever had with a Japanese woman, the sex is not good at all.
Irish women and Porto Rican women are the best at love making between the sheets.
Ps; with over 125 sexual partners for me, I’ve heard many compliments for my size and skill, so I know that my sexless marriage is not my lack in offerings.
Take care to All and please heed my advice.