With maid cafes where pretty young girls that ooze submissiveness to their “masters”, and “shuccho health” (出張ヘルス, basically, dial-a-prostitute) and soap-lands (sensual bathing houses with soapy special service) to vending machines for porn, and specialty shops with used high school girl underwear; Japan, at least on the surface appears one of the most sexually proactive nations in the world. Japanese men are as perverted (if not more perverted) than those in other countries, and as for the ladies, on top of being naturally feminine (with petite sexy bodies, skin that doesn’t seem to change complexion from childhood, pretty faces and silky black hair), the women of Japan have no misconceptions about what style – clothes, perfume and make up – makes a man stop in his tracks, and rouse that tingle in his loins.
When interacting with others, sex and everything surrounding it is fair game for a topic of conversation in Japan and, it is certainly not frowned upon by religious groups or society at large as it is in the USA and other countries. When it comes to secreting sexual hormones and sexuality in general, almost nothing is taboo in Japan – until that is, the day one gets married, or so it seems. Indeed in stark sexual contrast, Japan may be suffering from a sexual drought, where being totally open about sex and being sexy in general, doesn’t seem to be converted into the ins-and-outs of baby making when it comes to married couples.
Shown in these statistics, a recent survey by Japan’s health ministry found that as many as one-third of all marriages in Japan are sexless. The problem is now so widespread that the government fears it is a major contributor to the dramatic plunge in Japan’s birthrate (now only 1.28 births per woman). This sexless phenomenon is not only found in those relationships that are plunging down the drain toward divorce, but to the contrary, more and more couples that consider themselves healthily married (and have no intention of separating), have not had sex with each other in the last month or more (the common definition of “sexless” in Japan), with many saying that they have not had sex together in the last 6 months to one year.
According to the most recent survey of 41 nations last October, the average Japanese has intercourse 45 (and according to Bayer Pharmaceuticals as low as 17) times a year, compared with the global average of 103. Japan is repeatedly at the bottom of the list. Last year it trailed Singapore, which was 28 shags a year higher!
The term “sexless”, was first used in Japan in the early 1990s, but now is instantly recognizable to the Japanese as a universally understood concept, and widely discussed in the media. There are books on the subject and thousands websites and heartbreaking blogs discussing sexless Japan, while letters on the subject fill agony columns on “dear doctor”-type sites.
One in five sexless couples say they view sex simply as a nuisance. A small number cite the lack of a private space, because children or elderly parents often sleep just the other side of a paper-thin door, leading many married couples to even sleep in separate rooms. Mitsui Home announced recently in an Asahi Newspaper article, that in 30% of the new houses they build, the couples are asking for 2 “master” bedrooms. This is a shocking statistic, which shows that sexless couples want to continue living their lives together – separately! “We are sort of room-mates rather than a married couple”, one 31-year-old man, who had not had sex with his wife for two years, told the Asahi Shinbun.
There are many other theories about why the Japanese become less inclined to raunchy evenings in the sack together, but likely it is a mixture of some of these:
- Stress of work/life in Japan (maybe the taihen cloud?)
- Lack of understanding, and usage of contraception, especially “the pill” (who wants to use condoms with their wife!?), making sex with your wife viable only when you want to have a baby
- Abundance of 不倫 (furin, or extra-marital) relationships
- More and more Japanese women choosing career over family
- A tendency among Japanese married couples to feel an aversion to sex with their spouse, not because they dislike one another, but rather because they feel that they have more of a sister-brother relationship; the sanctity of which would be destroyed with a repulsive incest-like feeling, by what westerners would consider normal conjugal relations
The last point is an interesting one, as in the past, it has been traditionally Japanese women who complained that they couldn’t see their hubby “as a member of the opposite sex.” But in the last few years, there’s been an exponential increase in men who can’t view their wives as sexual partners either. While it is true that many Japanese married couples seem to be sexless in nature, they key thing to remember is that this certainly does not mean that they lack the desire for sexual fulfillment. While marriage and children may bring on a sex drought in the home, Japanese people who want (and in the case of most men, need) sex do not simply abstain from sex because they cannot see the feminine qualities in their own wife, or the sexual attraction of their hard working husband.
Japanese men love their companies; they live for work, and many don’t even think it is a problem if they don’t have sex with their wives. They have pornography and the sex industry (soap lands, cabaret bars, and dial-a-girl services, and trips to Taiwan) to take care of their needs, but their wives have nowhere to go. They just suffer in silence.. or do they? The divorce rate in Japan has nearly doubled in the past 10 years, with more women blaming their sexually inactive, as opposed to sexually errant, husbands for break-ups. Though they may not be seeking sexual pleasure from their better halves, married Japanese women are seeking intimacy from other sources (many even claim to have a sex addiction), leading double lives – being the good mother, while at the same time seeking out “Leroy” the lover, who is always lurking, and ready to fulfill her every desire.
Japan is full of temptation, and it doesn’t matter whether you are a housewife or salary-man, there is plenty of raunchy action waiting out there – if that is what you desire. Furin sites to find a (extra marital) “sex friend” partner are just as rampant in Japan as in other countries, however they are much more widely used by women in Japan to solve their sexless quandaries. For the more conservative ladies, sites like mixi.jp – which are neutrally classed as “social networking” spaces – are abound with profiles (men and women) looking for partners to secretly spruce up their sexless, but otherwise happily married lives.
Many Japanese marriages may be sexless, but this is only a statistic about the state of sex within marriage itself. In fact, there may be a good reason for the sexless condition of marriages here – Are the Japanese getting enough of the good stuff outside their marriages to keep them happy? I certainly think so.
Japanese people will never be sexless as individuals; therefore Japan is not sexless, so don’t let mere statistics confuse the situation!
(If you are married in Japan, or married to a Japanese, let us know what you think of “Sexless Japan” by leaving a comment below!)
BTW; I forgot to add that my wife wishes for me to find a girlfriend.
I have to agree with Robert about Irish women. I have not been with a lot but out of the ones I have been with Irish was absolutely the best…at sex. Japanese is the worst by far, even less than masturbation.
I’ll add to Robert’s information:
Polish women can be good, I had mixed results.
Latina women are VERY passionate.
Russian women (my current squeeze) are gold medalists in bed. Wild and frequent!
I preferred masturbation over boring sex with my Japanese ex-wife. Less hassle.
@ Timmy
“Timmy
Link to an article titled “Japan is Dying”.
http://www.henrymakow.com/japan_is_dying.html”
“The hand of the Illuminati can be seen in all of this. This is what they do. Destroy traditional structures. Fragment. Sterilize.”
LOL
Kayumochi:
Which part did you Laugh out Loud?
Do you think that it is just silly that the Illuminati exist or had a hand in all of this? If so what explanation can you give for the destruction of the culture in Japan in just one or two generations?
Timmy
Timmy
I agree its not funny at all. Because quietly and with purposeful intent the Japanese culture was and IS indeed destroyed from the family out.
People don’t realise how subtle and complete the damage is, even the Japanese themselves don’t realise it. Not until someone steps back and takes a real look at then vs. now do they really get an idea.
@Timmy
Please tell me who this “Illuminati” is that Henry Makow speaks of? I am not one to believe conspiracy theories, so I have a hard time considering this “Illuminati” and any plausible reason why and, more importantly, HOW “they” could create such a marital culture… If you read The Anatomy of Dependance (p.1973) by Takeo Doi you will see these issues have been part of Japanese culture more than just one or two generations.
FYI, I am married to a Japanese (20yrs w/ 3 kids), and understand clearly the issues with regards to the lack of intimacy between husband and wife. I am fluent, travel to Japan on business often, and interact with Japanese businessmen while I’m there, so I know firsthand how dysfunctional (from a Western point of view) Japanese husband/wife relationships can be. Fortunately for me, we live in the U.S. where the media and my wife’s American friends provide a more “western” environment, otherwise I am sure we’d have stopped having sex years ago… That being said, I still would not recommend marrying a Japanese.
I find it hard to believe that the Illuminati exist because I don’t see a single example in the “visible” where anything works out according to human plans in the long-term. Why should the “hidden” world of the Illuminati be any different?
That being said, let’s not get too far off topic. I don’t know that I would marry a Japanese woman again knowing what I know now.
Please tell me who this “Illuminati” is that Henry Makow speaks of? I am not one to believe conspiracy theories, so I have a hard time considering this “Illuminati” and any plausible reason why and, more importantly, HOW “they” could create such a marital culture…
Dear Nelson:
A normal person thinks and plans pretty much for his own life time. For example a life time plan for most is to finish school High School, College, or Grad School. Find a good job. Get married. Have children. Buy a house and a nice car. Save for retirement for one’s old age so one can enjoy the grandkids. Almost nobody makes plans for anything beyond one’s life except maybe to give a little bit of inheritance to your kids that they can enjoy after your death. It is beyond most of our understanding that there would exist a group of people that would make plans down the road for hundreds and hundreds of years. This is the Illuminati that make such plans. One may think that people do not come together to conspire. However: does it not make sense that this would be done by people with money. My local newspaper is filled with conspiracies. For example there is a story that the state has a theory that a certain boyfriend and girlfriend conspired to murder the boy’s parents. Yes ordinary people do conspire and people have conspired since the beginning to time. The Illuminati that Henry Makow speaks of consist of 13 bloodlines and information on them be found at the following video link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i3Dw8Cvg0o
How could the Illuminati create such a marital culture in Japan? One goal of the Illuminati is to destroy the family. If the family is nonexistent the state is what a person will look to for protection and this will give the Illuminati more power. In addition it is easier to destroy something first and then rebuild what you like from the rubble. The elite control the media and most of the music and movie industry. They pretty much can control the popular culture and the way it will go. Songs and movies can be put out to promote and give examples of free sex and homosexuality. In addition dramas can be put out to show how the father in the drama is weak and really just a goofball. One example of the power of a drama in changing the attitudes of women in Japan can be found at the following link.
http://www.japanesestudies.org.uk/discussionpapers/2011/Takeda.html
Not only can the arts be used to change the culture but the environmental will also make an influence. I feel that there may have been introduction of chemicals in the environment that has made a change in the physiology of the people of Japan. It again is just a theory but something happened to Japanese men. The younger men sure look and act more feminine than their fathers or grandfathers. The following link shows that chemicals can have a feminizing effect. These same chemicals may also give women a lower libido.
http://www.skinbiology.com/toxicsunscreens.html
What I would like to know is how the husbands of war brides felt about the sexuality of their Japanese wives. Is this a current problem or was it also a problem for the service men of World War 2 in that their wives did not put out? If it was also a problem for them I will guess I would have to admit my conspiracy theory is wrong.
Timmy
I personally also find it very hard to believe that something like that is manageable, but some facts you mentioned are quite overhelming.
When I talk to younger Japanese men, a lot of them are not interested in woman (except western looking manga women). Hard to believe, but they really are not. Even when they are drunk an amazingly high percentage of young men said that.
I can’t understand this at all…in western countries i have never ever heard anything similar.
Indeed, the country is going down, which is quite sad actually, but it can be seen quite clearly.
A lot of things are going terribly wrong…
Look at the faces of the people in the trains… how many happy faces have you seen there?
and then go to an other country, it looks different.
“Japanese wives just find it just too much work to be passionate with their husbands. It is just so much easier to have another women do that for them. ”
@timmy, somehow this phrase brings it to the point…
But still I really don’t get it. Why can’t they see the nice things once married….? It’s incredible
Dear leanBack
“When I talk to younger Japanese men, a lot of them are not interested in woman (except western looking manga women). Hard to believe, but they really are not.”
What the heck! It is much worse in Japan than I thought. I have not been back in over 25 years so I did not know it became this retarded. Back in the day my Japanese friends and coworkers did not have this view at all. They would talk about girls and would show a healthy interest in being with one.
I just happened to come across the video at the link below yesterday. It really proves your point. The man in the video makes the following statement. “A real female of course smells, is dirty…of course because it is a human being, it has lots of things. So we have this anime, isn’t it clean and pretty?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDNWcmG6Gjk
Timmy
Dear Timmy
Crazy the story in the link you posted. It also made the way to some newspapers of my home country…
But somehow preferring fantasy over reality seems to be like a recent trend…
But of course a lot of my japanese male friends have also girlfriends and when I’m once in a while go to the infamous love hotel districts, they are often quite full..
So, there’s still same action going on…
But still the fact that there are quite a lot of my japanese friends who honestly assured me that they have little interest in girls still shocked me, as I really never ever heard it from western people… Might be biased, but still…
@all
Actually, a couple of days ago I remembered a discussion I once had with my wife when we decided to get married.
One thing she said was that she expressed her worries something in our relashionship could change after our marriage…
I still can remember my reaction because I found this point very very strange (I have to admit that these days I was a Japan Noob and knew nothing about the culture…)
So, I replied
sry, someone came in my office and I had to hide the window, but the content was already submitted…. anyway
———————————————————————————————-
no, what could change? We have now a good relationship why should it change just because we are married, it even would be more comfortable as we do not need to worry about the visa stuff anymore.
Then, she said approximately something like: “I don’t know, it may be very different but I don’t not know how, but maybe less fun” and so on…
But I really did not pay attention to that and forgot it completely until recently…
But viewing at it from today’s standpoint, I guess I now know what she wanted to say me back in these days…
I really underestimated this situation…
So, what I’m wondering now, did anyone of you had some kind of a similar talk or just experience?
My Japanese wife hasn’t spoken to me in a month. Should I show her the door?
Kayumochi,
The Japanese “Silent Treatment” is very destructive to a relationship. When I went to marriage counseling, the counsellor told my ex-wife this was a disastrous way to deal with marital problems.
I coped with it quite well. During her “silent modes” I did whatever the hell I wanted. I went to the movies by myself, played poker, hung out with friends, she never asked me to DO anything so I was fine and dandy, just like candy.
Silent mode could last anywhere from a week to 6 months (being the longest) and the average was a month.
During her FINAL silent period, I struck up a relationship with a very attractive young lady and thus ended my marriage.
I was the one who broke the silence this time by saying, “I’m leaving”
Do not let your Japanese sexless robot “wife” manipulate you. Be your own person. Don’t worry about pissing her off or making things worse or “keeping the peace”. BE DISRUPTIVE! It’s the only way you’ll get a change.
Show her the door if you like. Otherwise, live YOUR LIFE. Have fun. Life is short.
Allright, pardon for changing the direction a little here but I need your collective advice.
I’ve dealt with a Japanese girl before – went to the same college she was great – actually cooked (in Los Angeles thats a majoooooor A+++) for me and all that. Long story short really liked her but insisted in going back to Japan and became ‘weird’ – and in trying to figure out how/why thats how I came to this site and a had a few of you fellas saying NEVER SETTLE DOWN WITH A JAPANESE WOMAN.
Heres what I need advice for :
I just went to Japan for the first time on transit back to LA. Loved it! Especially the katsu stuff aha, and of course the seemingly endless stream of women in thick ass makeup. SO anyways, I hooked up with a girl from Osaka (weve been in contact a month before I landed Japan) and we get along really well she speaks pretty okay english (never said “have a nice fright back to LA”). This girl though , has travelled around the world, and hates settling down back to Japan – she admits most Japanese are drones, the politeness is a facade, etc etc. What are the chances?
And I gotta say, I am almost at a point of addiction of wanting to go back to Japan. I got a lot of attention, realllllllllllllly enjoy the sexuality of Japanese women, even the ones for sale. A world’s difference in LA where a woman would not even look at you twice unless youre a sleazy rich producer (I am one, just not sleazy). The addicting point for me was men are, in a manner of speaking, to me, are treated king like almost. Thats my take and all the Russian women in Roppongi seemed just boring compared to em (Good times One Host club!)
Even though I never got the nice silent treatment so far longer than a couple of hours…
But at the moment I am currently exposed to a very nasty unwillingness, which results in avoiding every kind of funny activities….
–> Best thing to do: Go out alone/with friends and much better with a bunch of women!
–> If she does not want to talk with you, then you should talk (and even more) to other women….
Every weekend when I come home in the very early morning I think, why does it has to be like that…?
But yeah, its your life live it and if she does not wanna be part of it, then well… its her fault
@Kayumochi
Why is she giving you the silent treatment anyway?
I’d just use it as an excuse to go and do your own thing.
Well I have been back in Japan for 2 years and nearly 3 months and the J wife has fallen back into old habits: avoiding me like the plague at bedtime and of course NEVER initiating anything.
I’ve got something just about to happen with another woman again…
The silent treatment has been going off and on for years now so it doesn’t bother me as much as it used to and yes, I do make the most of this time and do my own thing. She has made me a symbol of everything that is wrong in her life, in other words, wrong with her. She doesn’t realize that if she leaves she is going to be stuck with all the same problems she has now. I think one reason she doesn’t leave is that she knows she can’t make it on her own either in Japan or the States.
I’m latina woman and I have been married for 14 years with a japanese man, our sex life the first years was good, then we had a kid and it dropped and dropped, from 3 times a week, to 3 times a month, and then 3 times a year, or some years 0! Now it’s once every 2 years. Not because of me because I love intimacy and I’m very romantic, but he just stop to feel the desire…sometimes I though, Oh my God I think he must be gay… Or, he must have another woman…but it’s not, he just simple stop feeling the desire because implicate emotional and physical effort. It has been so frustrating, I have talked to him so many times and the response it’s always the same…”You only think of sex? I’m not a pervert. Or, there are other things more important than having sex” Of course I believe that there are very important things in a marriage but sex and intimacy is one of then, having sex once every 2 or 3 years is not healthy for any relationship and I’m getting crazy!! Last week I talked to him and the answer was the same…we share this house, a child, and that’s the important thing, I’m not interesting in “those physical things” I wanted to know what he really think so I asked him, what would you feel if you see me naked passing in front of you? And he said..”.hmmm I don’t know…I think nothing, I don’t have such a pervert mind” I just couldn’t believe it! I don’t remember when was the las time my husband told me I was beautiful or anything at all, not a hug, not even a kiss on the chick, nothing! Thanks God my friends tell me compliments of how pretty I am or how good I look or wherever, I appreciate it in my heart so much, otherwise I will already loose any confident about me…There’s nothing I can do to make my husband look at me like a woman or want to lay down with me, I care a lot about my body and my appearance, I spend the whole day at home cleaning the house perfectly and cocking lots of japanese meals because my husband loves it, trying to always do something to make him happy…but nothing works, he sees me like his mom or like his little sister…I feel so tired of pushing my self so much and receive back nothing that I decide to leave our bedroom last week, I installed a bed on another room for me, it’s just to painful to sleep with him…I’m tired to get in bed and kiss goodnight to his back because he will never give me his face…I’m just to tired to all the avoid, to be ignore all the time…I’m only 37 years old and I feel sad to spend this beautiful years with somebody who thinks I’m just his room-mate. We have a 12 years old daughter so unfortunately because of her I have to keep being with him, my daughter loves him so much and I will break her world if I take her with me…Living with a partner who doesn’t want to take time to give you affection, touch, some kind words it’s hard…I decide to try to put him outside of my heart, he doesn’t deserve my love for him and I don’t deserve feel I’m a woman because I clean the kitchen. It’s just to painful that I don’t want to have him anymore in my heart, so that will help me to go through this without so much torture.
Thank you for your insight. I met only one western woman who shared stories about the constellation western female, Japanese male…
btw. do you live in Japan?
”You only think of sex? I’m not a pervert. Or, there are other things more important than having sex”
–> I get similar responses from my wife, EVERY time I talk about this topic.
The funny thing hereby is that before marriage (during 5 years!) she never complained and in fact initiated approx. 2 times a week (now she NEVER initiated for almost 2 years…).
What response do you get if you ask him something like: “Why did you change your behavior regarding having sex with me?” or “Before you never said anything, why now?”
“I don’t remember when was the last time my husband told me I was beautiful or anything at all”
–> I guess you won’t hear it in the future either.
Last time I heard something similar from my wife was before the marriage… Since then, affection is only there when I’m ill or something like that, but otherwise, it is around zero…
Maybe it is really the best if you get your attention elsewhere, even though it may does not fit with your morals. I do it now this way, and it helps quite a lot at the moment.
That’s the reason I now go clubbing 2 times a week. It’s very exhausting, but at least it helps.
…but nothing works, he sees me like his mom or like his little sister.
–> Somehow true… I asked (applying Japanese style asking technique) my wife recently how she perceives a husband. It turned out that she looks at me more as a familiy member rather than a dating partner… which is just too sad for me, but at least is honest…
My question hereby is: Do you think your husband just feels that it is not right to have sex with his wife, because she is more a sister/mother?
I sometimes have this kind of impression, namely that my wife enjoys having sex, but somehow she just does not feel that it is right to do it with her husband.
Would other people agree to this point or is it just too subjective…?
@Kayumoch
she has made me a symbol of everything that is wrong in her life, in other words, wrong with her.
–> Heard something similar from my wife before Christmas, it was something about a missed opportunity 5 years ago because we dated a lot those days.
Even though it was some kind of vague, it hurt me because I and my family really helped her to cope better with her own life (I found her a quite good job etc. ).
I felt really sad to hear things like this…
@Heinreich
Is it possible that your wife gave you the silent treatment to cause you to leave her so she wouldn’t have to take the blame?
@leanBack
Am with you on that. I can say the simplest, most trivial thing and she will project years of marriage onto it.
IeanBack
Thank you for your insight too. Yes I live in Japan, and excuse my poor english since this is not my first language. My husband too loved intimacy for the first years, but I think that the same happens with the japanese females, he got so into our child that he totally forget I was in there. And every time I asked him about it was the same response…we have great things to share…our house, our kid, bla bla bla
I think japanese people (well some of them are not like that, but that must be a minority) doesn’t think of sex as a way of communicate and make relationships stronger, as a way of enjoying and loving each other, they perceive it like something mechanic and dirty that you should not put too much time or effort on it, or you need to make it when you want to have babys, actually I was very surprise when a japanese female friend of mine who was married too told me “do you do Echi with your husband?” So I told Oh this is the way they see it like “Echi” you know this means “Dirty” Echi o Suru “Do Something Dirty” in japanese, I was in shock…
It’s a total different point of view of intimacy, I could never understand why most of all my japanese friends females after they had kids they want to sleep with their kids on a futon and leave their husbands alone, I think he doesn’t care too much either.
I’m sad you have the same problem and it’s just amazing that they all have the exacly response for all of us…you only think of sex? I don’t want to say what you already know but it’s not going to change, just like my partner…I love my husband and I will do anything to be only with him till I die because despite of the sexless life he as a man has so many good attributes that I appreciate but humanly it’s just impossible! How can you live and sleep with somebody you love without been able to touch her/him? And specially is worst for me cause the japanese man doesn’t like when the woman wants to start something, it’s a big turn off for them, if it happens it’s because he is the one who decides. I hope God will forgive me but sooner or later I’m afraid I’ll commit adultery, something that goes agains my morals and my dream of a family but how else can you survive?? And what if I do it and I feel more empty after that…I’m a woman, I need some emotional things involve not just body.
And you know that I have 3 female friends who have been here in Japan longer than me and there situations was the same as mine, my friends advice was, “look you have too to stop looking at your husband as your man and looking at him as just the father of your kid and as a family because that’s the way they look at us, and you should go and meet someone else too just like we do” So I think that if we want to keep living with our spouses (in my case for the sake of my kid) we have to learn the Art of Gaman or just say Sayonara to our morals and bring some happiness to ours life…
@Carol
Thanks for that post. It’s great to hear a female’s perspective. But it’s also discouraging to see that it happens to non-Japanese wives as well as husbands. If nothing else, it helps confirm the cultural depth of the mother-child relationship, and how it is the strongest familial bond; and the husband-wife relationship being most similar to roommates, or a brother-sister relationship in the Western sense.
Your point of the Japanese calling sex “echi” really drives home the point. Just as some words have no equivalent translation from one language to another, Japanese culture may simply have never fully developed sex as part of an overall intimate and sharing relationship among husband and wife… it’s just not part of their “vocabulary” so to speak, and must be learned, like a new language… Of course, one must WANT and make an EFFORT to learn a new language if they are to acquire it.
@Cindy, No te preocupes… your English is completely understandable…
Your daughter is already 12 and goes to school and your husband is working long hours, I assume, So, do you have something which keeps you out of the house, like a hobby or so?
“I hope God will forgive me but sooner or later I’m afraid I’ll commit adultery, something that goes against my morals and my dream of a family but how else can you survive?? And what if I do it and I feel emptier after that…I’m a woman, I need some emotional things involve not just body.”
I had the same concerns just two months ago…
When I chose going this path, I first had real problems to look at myself, because I really thought I became a very bad person. But however, it’s now better.
If you want to go this path, I guess you should go slowly and take your time to get to used to your new freedom.
I did not have a date for almost 6 years with other women, so I feel it now refreshing just to go to a (first) date and also just talking is fine.
If you are afraid of feeling more empty afterwards, it is may better to look for (long term) dates more than for one-night-stands, which in fact can be perceived quite empty afterwards…
For me ons are not an option at the moment, as I already feel quite empty due to my personal situation. In fact, the lack of emotional affection and desire from my wife is the thing which I miss the most, much more than just sex by it.
So maybe you just start having a look for western males married to Japanese females and just begin a chat about “the situation” without any intentions… it can work wonders just to talk about it first…
But I don’t want / can’t consider you doing that, but I gained a lot of enjoyment back since I’m doing it…
Another point regarding “t’s just amazing that they all have the exactly response for all of us…you only think of sex?“
The thing which makes me upset every time I get this answer is:
They exactly knew us quite a long time and what and how often we like to do it. And I’m now convinced that they also know how they gonna change (I just have not seen the signs)…
it would have been nothing but fair to state that clearly, before getting married
(Sometimes I feel some kind of fooled, even though I haven’t done my homework and did not know anything about Japanese marriage perceptions…, it was my fault assuming it would be similar to western standards)
@Nelson
Good point.
It’s fine that the mother-child relashionship is the strongest, I guess if I had a child I could live with that. But does this mean to actually neglect and ignore the emotional needs of your spouse? I just can’t get that
As it seems sex takes part everywhere here but between husband and wife…
I really doubt that one can learn this “new language” in Japan. They are just too much cultural things against it…
@IenBack Gracias! but still need to work more on my english grammar…
“Sometimes I feel some kind of fooled, even though I haven’t done my homework and did not know anything about Japanese marriage perceptions…, it was my fault assuming it would be similar to western standards” I feel the same way foled everyday too…but I think they didn’t it know this either, cause they don’t know our standards, they think that their standards are Ok and that’s normal. I think that at the beginning they are just to excite to be with somebody who is “different” and loving so they can somehow feel not only loved in a special way but different from the group, people will tell them good compliments and they might feel some kind of special, my husband told me that at the beginning “I’m so proud to introduce you to my friends!” But after marriage they just forget the special, the magic, the spark and they start to look in us all the bad stuff that is an insult to their culture. I can’t generalize in millions of japanese it can be real different people but what I know from my own experience and looking at my friends the japanese spouses always are trying to change their gaijin partner even the smallest things. I have spend years learning the culture, the language and the manners as polite and perfect can be but for my husband I still can’t get the real understanding of such a rich culture, and one of those things is not show what you have in your mind, don’t show your feelings to others, wth! Why we have to be us the gaijins spouses the ones who push so hard when they just stay in their comfort zone.
And yes, well I go to the gym and try to exercise as much as I can, my husband has his own business and doesn’t work until late so he always come around dinner time, I think because he likes my food, I never repeat a dish in a month and always try to prepare something new, I realize I have been doing this unconsciously to somehow catch his attention on me cause I know how he loves food, but that doesn’t work either…any way cooking has become one of my escapes too now. But tomorrow I’l go out to a club with my girlfriend, my husband doesn’t even care if I come late too, I can’t understand why he never ever get jealous, are the girls like that too?
“the lack of emotional affection and desire from my wife is the thing which I miss the most, much more than just sex by it” Me too…the lack of emotional affection is worse than the lack of sex…
And I like the idea to chat with other people married with japanese, actually just coming to this forum has helped me a lot. I was in internet trying to look for something to tell me I wasn’t crazy and I found this page, I was in shock to read all the posts and experiences most from guys but so so similar to mine…so it came to my mind a gaijin male friend I was talking years ago who was complaining that her wife after having kids was so different, she took all his salary and didn’t gave him back to much, she didn’t care to look appealing and beautiful anymore and when he wanted to have intimancy most of the time she had headaches and when they could she only opened her legs like a death thing, looked at the ceiling and made no sound…Omg I can’t even imagine to be able to do that. My friend told me he felt he was raping her cause wasn’t a reciprocal thing. I never though all japanese wives changed so much as the males, I just though my friend was unlucky and besides his wife wasn’t very social either. The tips of how stimulate your night and your partner with toys, clothes, candles, music or wherever just doesn’t work for them, at least after they’re marriage and specially with kids.
For now I need to start forgetting and expecting anything from my husband for the sake of my heart and wellbeing. My dream was to love and be loved from the man I choose for the rest of my life since cheating was something I was always against, but I can’t go the rest of my life living without affection and love…this is just more than somebody can take…
So sad everybody is disperse, we should make a club of the heartbreaks gaijins spouses! lol
@Nelson Even we can understand the language the “Ecchi” word tells me a lot of their perception of what we call “Make Love” for them “Ecchi” has a meaning of “Dirty, Naughty, Pervert and Frivolous thing” That’s how they see it, that’s how they sell it too with the manga.
@ Cindy
Yes, knowing something intellectually is much different than FEELING the meaning. For example, I could say “F*ck You!” to a Japanese, and they understand it is a bad word, but they cannot FEEL the incisiveness of the words. (The same would be true in the reverse.)…
So my revelation from your illuminating comments about “etchi” is that the Japanese do not have a cultural understanding of “making love” and all that it encompasses beyond just the intercourse. For them, intercourse (sex) serves two purposes: either for ‘etchi’ pleasures, or for procreating. The idea of sex as a way to strengthen the bond between partners (especially after marriage & kids) is foreign to them. They might see it in movies and want to copy the ideal of it, but they cannot intrinsically FEEL the act of ‘making love’ since it is not part of their cultural vocabulary.
The difficult part is that we, as non-Japanese in this blog, know what is missing in the relationship. But, the Japanese don’t know, and so it never occurs to them that it is necessary. And even if they did, for most of them, it would be too much ‘work’ to try and find out…
Here’s another update on my situation. Sex has improved, non-sexual intimacy has not despite repeated attempts by myself in bed, on the couch etc. We went for another visit to the therapist and she asked her whether she was attracted to me or not. Wife hemmed and hawed saying it’s different after kids. We both told her that it’s common in Japan for affairs to happen on both sides due to over worked husbands as well. She was surprised to say the least.
She asked her whether she was attracted to anyone, like a movie star etc, and the wife said not really. The therapist was kind of stumped I think.
So a few days later, we were watching tv with an actor who used to be a stripper, and he took his shirt off during a show. I asked her if she thought he was attractive. She said yes. I asked her whether there was anything I could do to be more attractive to her. She replied that I could have better abs and stronger legs. She said I used to have stronger legs years ago. I was a little shocked by this because on the one hand I’m glad she admitted she could be attracted to someone, and that I could change to become more attractive (although I am in quite good shape already), on the other hand I thought it was weird because I have always commented positively about her appearance even though she has gained more weight than me. I have never been negative about anything with her. So this is interesting. Maybe she’s just saying that to make it seem like she could be attractive to someone even though underneath she really doesn’t care. I don’t know.
Then I asked her whether she had been to a strip club before. Turns out when she was in her early twenties she went to one with her female friend and there was live sex going on stage which I thought was cool. I think this is what is confusing to the therapist because on the one hand there is a conservative society in many respects, and on the other hand you have live sex at strip clubs. I’ve been to strip clubs before but never seen that kind of stuff before.
I guess this fits in well with the change in Japanese families after kids but I’m really curious about our next meeting with the therapist after I tell them about these new things that happened. The wife still may try to change and be more non-sexually intimate now, I’m just waiting to see what happens.
@Doug
It sounds to me like you are brain-washing your J-wife and training her with the help of a therapist to be something she is naturally not….
@ Doug
I would still say she can feel this kind of attraction, but that is supposed to be hidden and some kind of prohibited by the society.
In my view, being sexually attracted to a person is a human instinct like eating.
Recently, I talked with a jp girl about that whole topic (she does not know anything about my situation) and she said, that a surprisingly high amount of her female friends find it quite strange to have sex with their boyfriends, but only after they made public that they have a boyfriend, before they do..
I found that really strange, but somehow don’t know how to interpret it.
So, Doug, I guess even if you looked better then Brad Pitt, George Clooney and Leo di Caprio all together or if you were more romantic than all the Hollywood movies could show, it would not change the situation, because the j-wife sees your role in relation to her and not your person. I just gave up caring if I’m attractive to her or not. I was hurt too often regarding this matter.
Hereby I like Yummys point; she can’t become which she is naturally not.
They just have a different nature.
That’s how I look at the situation now, and I really hope I’m totally wrong…
Strip club issue: I would say it’s just ecchi pleasure, Nelsons latest post regarding ecchi I found really well.
I had another discussion with my wife yesterday until the early morning, she perceives this whole change I’m trying to do very stressful.
I try to bring some input in our relationship, to spice it up and she says it is stressful.
Nothing but disturbing and stressful. Instead, for westerns it is the source of further development and helps to make the relationship deeper.
Even when I say don’t wear this particular cloth because it does not fit you well (she looks like her mom wearing it) and put up something sexier, she is very concerned. But some time ago it was not the same; she liked to wear clothes which were sexier.
At least, I would agree if she would dress up for someone else, but just I would like her to be able to feel sexy at least a little bit.
But she now feels that I’m fading a bit out of our relationship as I’m dating other girls and get my emotional satisfaction from others.
It is sooo sad, that I’m doing this.
The saddest thing is that it helps me to feel better for a couple of hours. But at the same time it remembers me how the things used to be with my wife earlier…
There were exactly the same feelings with her before, but I fear they will never come back with my wife not even for about 10% either…
I’m really down at the moment; the whole situation wasted me quite strongly this week…
I don’t see any hope how to fix it, at the moment I see just the possibility to finish the relationship with my wife, but I fear she could not cope with that and maybe harm herself…. And I still love her somehow… But on the other hand, I doubt if I can continue that life…
@Cindy:
“So sad everybody is disperse, we should make a club of the heartbreaks gaijins spouses! Lol”
This seems to be a good idea. I would be up for it pronto. Maybe if enough people are interested we could meet once in the “real world” around Tokyo 😉
Sorry for my long post, but today I’m feeling really down…
@leanBack, that reminds me of the turtle and the scorpion story.
I know for sure she wouldn’t change without the prodding of the therapist. Basically she thought she was in the right and the problem had to do with me. The therapist was able to show her that she had issues that were interfering with the marriage, and if she wanted to stay married she’d have to work on them. (Not that I don’t have my own issues I’m working on).
It seems like we’re talking more and become more friends, whether that will lead to more non-sexual intimacy remains to be seen. Maybe she just wants the guy to take the lead. She doesn’t push me away anymore. And the sex has gone up. So I can’t really complain as much I suppose. Whether that lasts is another story.
In my situation I have kids, a house etc so it’s way harder to get a divorce. If you don’t have kids then obviously it would be far easier for you to start over if she’s not acknowledging the problem and willing to work on things.
@leanBack
If your wife sees this as stressful then she obviously does not want to do it. How do you feel about that???
How long do you think she can/or is willing to keep this up??
Realistically this therapy thing is just a temporary fix, the only way it can turn into a permanent solution is if she gives into this brain-washing and does not find it as a stressful change.
@Doug
“I know for sure she wouldn’t change without the prodding of the therapist. Basically she thought she was in the right and the problem had to do with me. The therapist was able to show her that she had issues that were interfering with the marriage, and if she wanted to stay married she’d have to work on them. (Not that I don’t have my own issues I’m working on).”
I’m quite sure that in my case it is the same. Even after spending days of talking and explaining my points to my wife, it seems like she just cannot see them… She thinks it is just my and only my problem.
And how the *** can she under these circumstances ask me how it would be to have a child very soon. I would like to have one, but as the situation is right now, I cannot even imagine…
But how can that be? Is it that difficult to understand my points?
Luckily, I now see that it’s not me who is the only weird mind around here….
@Yummy
I feel very bad and disappointed about it. It is really not necessary that things have become so complicated, it was not so for 5 god damn years, why now, why is it now so hard, I think.
But she just does feel my points… Unless then before, she was really willing to discuss with me and we overcame a lot of troubles. But for more than one year this has changed.
Another thing is that she now often gets upset when I did not catch suddenly a quite complicated Japanese sentence…
Why now? Before she always said it is very cute when I was trying to speak Japanese.
Why has it changed into the opposite? When I don’t get quite a difficult sentence, you should not be pissed off, I guess.
Honestly, I have no idea how long this will continue like that. But I have to ask myself the question how long will I continue like that. How long she will or can, I have no clue.
But somehow I feel there is no way back now. It has to become better or it is over…
You see, I have tons of questions but no answers…
@leanback
“Another thing is that she now often gets upset when I did not catch suddenly a quite complicated Japanese sentence…
Why now? Before she always said it is very cute when I was trying to speak Japanese.
Why has it changed into the opposite? When I don’t get quite a difficult sentence, you should not be pissed off, I guess.”
LOL. Same thing happened to me – my wife would tell me to go look in the dictionary. Now that we are no longer in Japan she gets upset at me if I don’t understand her English.
@leanBack
I stopped speaking Japanese to my wife 6 months ago. This is after 10 years speaking in Japanese to her. She speaks to me in Japanese and I answer her in English. Much easier now.
If I were you I’d find out whether she’s willing to work on your relationship.
When I told my wife about seeing a therapist together the first time she flipped out on me for hours, until finally agreeing. At the actual session she was fine and has no complaints about it.
If your wife isn’t willing to work on it, and you don’t have kids yet I’d get out while you still can. I was contemplating divorce for many years and always came up with excuses why I couldn’t go through it. Basically ruined my life to a certain degree. Then came kids and then a house and now it’s 100 times as hard. Thankfully we have gotten better due to her able to change through counselling, but if your wife isn’t willing to meet you halfway, then I’d move on so you can begin to start a new life without her.
Seems to be quite common though this kind of language issue.
It seems really strange to me, as I was always very understandable when she had problems speaking my mother tongue. Getting upset when my Japanese is not correct is some kind of counterproductive in my view…. and it definitely does not help to solve any kind of problems at all.
Thank you for your hints. I’m trying to figure this out now, what the relationship is really worth to her…
Guess, it is not an easy task…
As an update, we now have some kind of a break some time and she moved back to her mom’s place while I’m in Tokyo…
Actually, I thought some distance would be good for the moment and after that it is maybe clearer if it’s the right path to continue or not and if she is willing to work on the mentioned things or not.
I haven’t lived alone for a while but it’s some kind of refreshing, I thought I would be much more down but actually I really enjoy my free space at the moment…
Not a good sign for the relationship…
But you’re right, at the moment it would not be that difficult to get out of the situation (still I don’t find it very easy, but you can’t compare it to the situation when you have a house together or even kids, omg, this has to be so much harder… cannot think about it)
Honestly, if someone does not have kids and is in a bad marriage which can not be fixed, they should end it and move on. I don’t see why anyone would want to torture themselves and stay.
Things can and will only get worse if children are involved.
Best to get out whilst you can.
I agreed with Coconut, if IeanBack doesn’t have kids he should LEAVE as soon a he can!!! She is NEVER going to change, and if she get kids she is going to get worse!
I’m stick to this dead relation with my japanese husband just because my daughter, cause I don’t want to break her world, but now for my sake I decide to sleep in a different room, Oh My God I didn’t know it was going to help so much! I feel like I’m in heaven! No more pain and the desire, the admiration and everything I could ever felt for my husband is TOTALLY GONE! I don’t see my husband as a man Anymore, I feel absolutely Nothing, he just spend so many years loosing me and hurting me…I’ll be with him until my daughter grows up.
“When people hurt you over and over think of them like sand paper, they scratch and hurt you a bit but at the end you end up polished and they end up useless”
I think there is more going on then men going to hookers or staying at work all the time. My wife is Japanese and she is very methodical and dutiful in regards to taking care of the house and kid. I mean she runs the house like a well oiled toyota factory. She is always trying to save pennies here and there. Never eat out unless we have a coupon. Have to go to the gas station that is 10 cents cheaper. Have to get out of the parking lot in the most efficient manner and always park close to the store if possible. Never buy anything unless its on sale. Efficiency is high priority in hour house in everything. I am an American and this drives me nuts sometimes.
She does not care for intimacy what so ever. She cannot stand being touched by me or take the time for anything besides her work or taking care of our daughter.
Think the main problem in Japan is that both the man and women have the mindset of duty to work hard in both their jobs. Meaning working to get results. Could mean getting a promotion for the man or a well run household, well rounded kids and well planned finances for the woman. Sex is meaningless to both of them. It only serves purpose of having kids and that is it. That would go inline with what is Japanese efficiency. Feeling of love and closeness with your spouse is not necessary and in fact is a waste of time and energy.
Hey, everyone. I haven’t posted in a while but I read every new posting.
I am too full of sake right now to find the relevant post, but whoever doesn’t have children and is already having problems with a Jgirl, multiply it by 100. Once you have a child, they become the center of your world. Then the Jwife will fully become her true self. Whatever she has tried to hide from you for years will suddenly come out in the open after the child comes. She will not give a cup of piss to help you unless it directly helps her somehow. She will be very good at taking care of the kid but you carry less weight in her mind than an appliance. When the washer dies and you have a bad day at work, see what she cares about – whatever directly affects her.
Anyway, my wife doesn’t give a crap about me. But I am stuck with her because our child is more important to me than my own life. And she is stuck with me because I make more money here and I would leave the country if she tried to divorce me here (I took precautions against that).
Western guys have it easy in Japan. We speak a valuable language. And just as some of us find Asians more beautiful than Westerners, some of them find us more attractive than effeminate Jboys.
I met someone who makes me feel alive again. She happens to be Asian and living in Japan, but not Japanese. Her English is already perfect so that is not why she talks to me. My problem is that I think she is too good to waste time waiting for me when I am trapped in a dead marriage for at least ten more years. But oh my God, she is so beautiful, smart, and such a positive person. I think my my wife is pretty, too, but we have not touched each other in well over a year, she is extremely negative, and we have not cared about each other for probably three years.
I cannot stop thinking about this girl I happened to meet. Anyone else had a similar situation?
Luckily I don’t have kids. That’s why I’m really considering leaving at the moment…
Still it experienced some slight improvement since my last post, but getting the infamous “silent treatment” at the moment, I actually think she is not able to change at all…
Yes, I had this kind of feeling quite often recently when I happen to meet a nice girl around here.
But they were all Japanese, and the situation of getting to know each other was so amazingly similar to the situation when I met my wife back in the days that I cannot enjoy this time because I’m convinced that even if I would leave my wife and stay with the new girl it will turn into the same sh**t at the end (like some of you mentioned).
I happened to meet also a quite nice Japanese girl, I thought at the beginning we were some kind of soul mates, but if I’m honest with myself it is just the repetition of the story with my wife (from the very beginning until the point where I’m now with the other girl)
But in your case, as she is not Japanese (nor C nor K) I see a chance that she is different and worth to put in some effort to get to know her better.
My personal hope now is for girls from South-east Asia, as in my humble experience girls from JCK are quite similar regarding these points of marriage (or my sample was just too low…).
Even though I really like Asian girls from the appearance I doubt more and more that I can stay with any of them… Maybe one from south-east Asia would fit me better…
Otherwise I’ll leave Japan and go to South America!
Maybe the age of your friend is also important. I guess if she is above 30 and has little intention in marriage it should be fine and you don’t “steal” anything from her if you have a good time together.
Does she know that you’re badly married?
My latest silent treatment will be at the two month mark tomorrow.
@kayumochi
2 months?! Time to throw in the towel?
Mine lasted only 2 or 3 hours yesterday and after that she finished it by a “nice” excuse…
Maybe there is a improvement in my case, but I doubt of its sustainability.
But, two months, this is just awful… without respect. Just too grotesque they sometimes say that westerners are rude and dont have respect.
I cannot see any sense in showing respect to people you don’t know and treat the ones you should treat well like s***.
Lived here 11 years. Have yet to meet a foreign man who has had children and is married to a Japanese woman. Certainly validates the saying, “Friends do not let friends marry Japanese women.”
Just curious, do any of you guys/girls laugh and joke with your J-spouse??
Other than sex how is the relationship, do you talk and joke around or enjoy each others company?
How would you say the normal J-marriage is in this regard??
Hi Yummy,
For what I remember, it goes like this:
Pre-Kids: We joked, we laughed we enjoyed each others company.
Post-Kids: I made jokes, she didn’t laugh. The focus was the kids for her. Once the kids were in bed, the TV came on (she watched it, not me) If I tried to talk to her I got:
“THIS IS MY TIME NOW”
And forget sex.
Don’t marry a Japanese woman. If I had read this forum when I got married, I would have NEVER gotten married. Sadly, the Internet wasn’t really very big in 1993.
Let me clarify. I have lived in Tokyo for 11 years. I have yet to meet a foreign man who has married a Japanese woman, had children with her AND is living in JAPAN.
Maybe there are some happily married foreign men out there, I have not met them.
Certainly appears to validate the saying, “Friends do not let friends marry Japanese women.”