With maid cafes where pretty young girls that ooze submissiveness to their “masters”, and “shuccho health” (出張ヘルス, basically, dial-a-prostitute) and soap-lands (sensual bathing houses with soapy special service) to vending machines for porn, and specialty shops with used high school girl underwear; Japan, at least on the surface appears one of the most sexually proactive nations in the world. Japanese men are as perverted (if not more perverted) than those in other countries, and as for the ladies, on top of being naturally feminine (with petite sexy bodies, skin that doesn’t seem to change complexion from childhood, pretty faces and silky black hair), the women of Japan have no misconceptions about what style – clothes, perfume and make up – makes a man stop in his tracks, and rouse that tingle in his loins.
When interacting with others, sex and everything surrounding it is fair game for a topic of conversation in Japan and, it is certainly not frowned upon by religious groups or society at large as it is in the USA and other countries. When it comes to secreting sexual hormones and sexuality in general, almost nothing is taboo in Japan – until that is, the day one gets married, or so it seems. Indeed in stark sexual contrast, Japan may be suffering from a sexual drought, where being totally open about sex and being sexy in general, doesn’t seem to be converted into the ins-and-outs of baby making when it comes to married couples.
Shown in these statistics, a recent survey by Japan’s health ministry found that as many as one-third of all marriages in Japan are sexless. The problem is now so widespread that the government fears it is a major contributor to the dramatic plunge in Japan’s birthrate (now only 1.28 births per woman). This sexless phenomenon is not only found in those relationships that are plunging down the drain toward divorce, but to the contrary, more and more couples that consider themselves healthily married (and have no intention of separating), have not had sex with each other in the last month or more (the common definition of “sexless” in Japan), with many saying that they have not had sex together in the last 6 months to one year.
According to the most recent survey of 41 nations last October, the average Japanese has intercourse 45 (and according to Bayer Pharmaceuticals as low as 17) times a year, compared with the global average of 103. Japan is repeatedly at the bottom of the list. Last year it trailed Singapore, which was 28 shags a year higher!
The term “sexless”, was first used in Japan in the early 1990s, but now is instantly recognizable to the Japanese as a universally understood concept, and widely discussed in the media. There are books on the subject and thousands websites and heartbreaking blogs discussing sexless Japan, while letters on the subject fill agony columns on “dear doctor”-type sites.
One in five sexless couples say they view sex simply as a nuisance. A small number cite the lack of a private space, because children or elderly parents often sleep just the other side of a paper-thin door, leading many married couples to even sleep in separate rooms. Mitsui Home announced recently in an Asahi Newspaper article, that in 30% of the new houses they build, the couples are asking for 2 “master” bedrooms. This is a shocking statistic, which shows that sexless couples want to continue living their lives together – separately! “We are sort of room-mates rather than a married couple”, one 31-year-old man, who had not had sex with his wife for two years, told the Asahi Shinbun.
There are many other theories about why the Japanese become less inclined to raunchy evenings in the sack together, but likely it is a mixture of some of these:
- Stress of work/life in Japan (maybe the taihen cloud?)
- Lack of understanding, and usage of contraception, especially “the pill” (who wants to use condoms with their wife!?), making sex with your wife viable only when you want to have a baby
- Abundance of 不倫 (furin, or extra-marital) relationships
- More and more Japanese women choosing career over family
- A tendency among Japanese married couples to feel an aversion to sex with their spouse, not because they dislike one another, but rather because they feel that they have more of a sister-brother relationship; the sanctity of which would be destroyed with a repulsive incest-like feeling, by what westerners would consider normal conjugal relations
The last point is an interesting one, as in the past, it has been traditionally Japanese women who complained that they couldn’t see their hubby “as a member of the opposite sex.” But in the last few years, there’s been an exponential increase in men who can’t view their wives as sexual partners either. While it is true that many Japanese married couples seem to be sexless in nature, they key thing to remember is that this certainly does not mean that they lack the desire for sexual fulfillment. While marriage and children may bring on a sex drought in the home, Japanese people who want (and in the case of most men, need) sex do not simply abstain from sex because they cannot see the feminine qualities in their own wife, or the sexual attraction of their hard working husband.
Japanese men love their companies; they live for work, and many don’t even think it is a problem if they don’t have sex with their wives. They have pornography and the sex industry (soap lands, cabaret bars, and dial-a-girl services, and trips to Taiwan) to take care of their needs, but their wives have nowhere to go. They just suffer in silence.. or do they? The divorce rate in Japan has nearly doubled in the past 10 years, with more women blaming their sexually inactive, as opposed to sexually errant, husbands for break-ups. Though they may not be seeking sexual pleasure from their better halves, married Japanese women are seeking intimacy from other sources (many even claim to have a sex addiction), leading double lives – being the good mother, while at the same time seeking out “Leroy” the lover, who is always lurking, and ready to fulfill her every desire.
Japan is full of temptation, and it doesn’t matter whether you are a housewife or salary-man, there is plenty of raunchy action waiting out there – if that is what you desire. Furin sites to find a (extra marital) “sex friend” partner are just as rampant in Japan as in other countries, however they are much more widely used by women in Japan to solve their sexless quandaries. For the more conservative ladies, sites like mixi.jp – which are neutrally classed as “social networking” spaces – are abound with profiles (men and women) looking for partners to secretly spruce up their sexless, but otherwise happily married lives.
Many Japanese marriages may be sexless, but this is only a statistic about the state of sex within marriage itself. In fact, there may be a good reason for the sexless condition of marriages here – Are the Japanese getting enough of the good stuff outside their marriages to keep them happy? I certainly think so.
Japanese people will never be sexless as individuals; therefore Japan is not sexless, so don’t let mere statistics confuse the situation!
(If you are married in Japan, or married to a Japanese, let us know what you think of “Sexless Japan” by leaving a comment below!)
as i’ve had opportunities to discuss sexlessness with men and women both japanese and foreigners alike sexlessness appears to boil down to this, sex may be viewed as a necessary activity to get men to marry. many to most japanese women do not enjoy sex as a form of orgasmic pleasure. men basically don’t know how to satisfy the women with whom they have sex. many to most men like to think they know how to sexually satisfy women, but they don’t.
if the woman actually enjoys sex from her own perspective(having orgasms) as opposed to ‘just pleasing the man’ then sexual activity will continue through married life provided that the man lightens workload and stress of home and childcare.
“Oh preeze Mr. Bob Harrisu…preeze lip…oh preeze oh preeze Mr. Bob Harrisu!”
It’s not just japanese women. I have found after being married to a japanese man for 5 years that we have “sexless” periods, they could go on for months if i didn’t make the first move.
When you’ve been married for a while, sex kind of works it’s way down the list. I still want to do it, and when i initiate, yes, then hubby is raring to go. But, i think it boils down to the fact that when you are going out on dates, you have no commitments, you’re only looking to the next date, and what else is there to do reallly? you’re still discovering each other.
After marriage there are other focuses. Buying a house, having kids, renovations etc, it all takes up time.
I also think that hubby doesn’t want to “bother me” with his needs, which i’ve told him is totally fine. I think alot of people have an image that japanese men want to do it all the time, if they can, but when you grow up, alot more things come in first place than sex. It doesn’t mean you love each other any less, and it means that anniversary sex is the best sex you’ve ever had! haha 🙂 Just kidding… i’m far from that “wife who doesn’t want to have sex” i’m the kind who’s always wants to do it, but, i respect my husband. I know he works hard and long hours, 6 days per week, and i don’t just jump his bones the minute he walks in the door.
The guys who complain about japanese women not having sex, or just laying there, or being totally useless, well helllooo?, that is their culture mate. They were brought up to please men, that’s the society they grew up in, and of course, man is #1 in the household, so she’s trying to please you, whatever you want.
But another thing is, if you don’t tell her what you want, she won’t know will she?
Do you enjoy your wife’s company, is what i would like to know? Are you only all about sex or do you actually enjoy your wife in other ways? Saying she is useless is a bit harsh. She might think the same thing of you! And in what way is she useless? I too, would like to know. I’m sure she cooks you dinner every night and makes a nice home, that is far from useless.
Just my two cents, but i wouldn’t label japanese women into a sexless box, because japanese men are like that too, but it all depends on the situation and lifestyle, and their childhoods, but i would just recommend that if you want a sex object, go to a prostitute, don’t bother marrying someone, you will never be happy.
Cheers 🙂
In the comments (I did not read them all, but most) it seems the woman is the problem in the relationship. I, as a woman, have similar problems. My last two relationships involved men who were unable to keep me happily satisfied. One was Japanese and the other American.
I cannot really define the reasons behind it though. I certainly do not lie back like a dead fish and do nothing, but more than one person has told me they thought one might have preferences the other way.
I have heard stories like mine from other women. Whether it is true or not… girls will sometimes say what other girls want to hear.
Hello, everyone. I’m new here.
I agree with azumarisan. You have to COMMUNICATE with your wife if you don’t want a divorce. How about taking her out on a romantic date? You could get her sexy lingerie. Tell her she’s sexy and excites you. Tell her you love her but you need more intimacy in your marriage. Tell her what you need. She has to know. (don’t force her, just make your point and be patient. ) Good luck everyone!
Great point, Yuri. 🙂
I was trying to figure out a remedy for the relationship with my boyfriend and found this discussion….they were very interesting.
Honestly, I was somewhat relieved becasue I was not the only one who has the intimacy problem, but at the same time, I was a little dissapointed because it dosn’t seem that there are easy solutions. But, we have to be positive!!
I am Japanese woman and my boyfriend is American, we met in the U.S. and we’ve been together more than four years. My boyfriend told me that he hasn’t been satisfied with our intimacy and he wanted to separate….there are some other reasons for the separation, but the intimacy thing is one of them…We have been discussed this issue so many times….over and over again….he wanted to have sex everyday, he wants to come back to someone who is beautiful and happy to see him…I totally understand what he says….I would like to do so, I would like to see a guy who is handsome, fit and charming…..I would like to have some intimacy with him, but unfortunately, I have to admit that my body is not ready for this every single day.
He accused me that I don’t love him as much as he loves me, but I strongly believe that this is a biological, hormonal or a cultural issue…..I love him, I care about him, but I do not need sex as much as he does….it’s sad….but it’s true. I don’t enjoy having sex with him as much as he does, but I enjoy having sex with him (if he believes it or not)……I might not like it as much as he likes, but I like it, I don’t hate it (if he believes it or not)…. I just do not need sex every single day as he needs…I am always less than him…..maybe “extremely” less than him from his point of view….
I accept what he wants, so it’s OK for me to have sex as a kind of duty as long as he can be satisfied. But he doesn’t want me to think that way…that is a great thing about him….but it makes us feel more sad…I think he understands this difference, but he seems like he doesn’t want to accept it, he doesn’t want to give it up. I don’t expect he will give up, but nothing I can do so far.
I have been tring to find where this problem comes from…I grew up in Japan, and I am sure that my parents haven’t have the intimacy for a long time..so I haven’t exposed to “Western” concept of intimacy until he made me realize there is the difference exsists and he haven’t been satisfied with it.
Maybe I should go to the counseling, but I doubt that it is going to give me a fundamental solution.
nagoyan
no, you do not need counseling, he does. it’s his job to understand you from your sexual perspective. men and women are different. you will see some aspects of this japanese/westerner sexual divide covered in the site posted in comment 192.
cut your losses before you read about his experiences with you from his perspective on this site.
there are no easy solutions. but realize that it is seldom possible, if wise to change for someone else. you are you. thankfully i’ve not had this as an issue in my life because i inform japanese women of my sexuality of 3 to 5X a week very early in the relationship, usually before our first sexual encounter.
I think mitaboy is right – cut your losses. Without knowing your age, I would add before you waste your best years of life forever. He, perhaps may just needs an attractive plastic blow up instead.
He may be handsome, fit but that alone means nothing. I think most “westerners” would like to have sex with an available charming, nice, exotic looking, feminine Japanese young women but for most that is where things end. If she is available daily that’s great for them/him. But makes no difference to the (poor at this moment) relationship outlook for you.
I guess what I am saying it is easy to use Japanese women…
I think you need to look beyond the superficial and find a person who also appreciates you and your absolutely unique and fantastic cultural emotional and value system background. I know this sounds scary but the truth is your options to find a right partner outside of Japan, e.g. in US are far more narrow that an average American girl’s. A lot of these handsome, fit would not be worth your time – they may not even notice you are different, not to mention understand or desire or appreciate the difference.
Look at their cultural background, who their family and friends are. Try not get stuck with time wasters. Hope you find your great match. White is not always best 😉
I have been married to a lovely woman from Tokyo and we have kids. We live outside of Japan. Oh, and I am very very happy with the relationship. Love it!
kornik
I think my boyfriend is very appreciative….he appreciates my uniqueness and what I have done for him. He likes me because I am not like typical American girls. I appreciate his efforts to understand me since my English skill was not enough to express and explain my feelings well.
He is coming from Mexican family and he is educated. I can see that Mexican families are full of love all the time, they show love, affection and passion (especially this) for someone they love…if you watch Mexican dramas, it’s very obvious because the stories expand in their bedrooms..while Japanese dramas barely show their bedrooms. So I understand the difference and I accept that. That’s the greatest thing of understanding different culture and each other.
What I am trying to say here is that if we appreciate the cultural difference and each other’s uniqueness, why can’t we appreciate the differences in intimacy…..maybe it is difficult because men’s and women’s brain are just different as “mitaboy” mentioned. But I think it should be able to overcome…(I hope so).
My boyfriend told me what type of intimacy he wanted from the beginning, and I understood it. But my body doesn’t react the way we want. So I think understanding and any type of agreement do not always remedy the situation. I won’t rush to find the solution, but I am not sure he can torelate to discover the solution with me for a long time….
Nagoyan
I think the problem you are describing a lot of couples around the world would subscribe to!
In time, things around intimacy & differences in your needs will change. Men go over the hill in their twenties. Your problem may solve itself 🙂
Wish you all the best.
kornik
Thanks!!
Hi everyone, this is a great discussion, I’ve got a lot out of it so far. I’d like to extend a warm welcome to the Japanese women who recently started commenting here, it’s very useful (and interesting) to hear your opinions.
Regarding the issue of libido, we all want the perfect relationship, which includes a partner with the same sex drive that we have. But nothing in life is perfect and compromise must be a part of any relationship. If your body will not cooperate with your desires, no amount of wishing is going to change that, and I think your partner has no choice but to accept it. Sex is a physical activity, and everyone has their limitations.
The solution which seems fairly obvious to me is masturbation. But a lot of western guys have resistance to this. Some kinds of Christianity still teach that masturbation is wrong. Some guys think that only penetrating a woman makes you a man, so masturbation makes you less of a man. Some guys even consider it a homosexual act.
Sex with your lover will always be better. But it’s not fair to ask for more than they can give. I think it’s wonderful that Nagoyan has tried to accommodate her BF, she has shown him that she cares about him and I think he has a lot to be happy about.
Many men here have talked about their wives being extremely passive in bed. I have experienced this and wondered about it. I think that to some Japanese (and perhaps many), sex is not viewed as a mutual, reciprocal act. It is viewed as something a man does to a woman, for his pleasure, at her expense. Have a look at post 142, by borninloxley. “You really are the lord and master”. “Dont give her the option, tell her what to do sexually”. I assume the writer is not Japanese, but I think he has expressed views held by many Japanese people, both men and women. They believe that the pleasure of a woman is not something that a real man would concern himself with, because women experience the most pleasure from giving it to a man. What motivation would a woman have to actively try to please a man like that? He’s going to do whatever he wants anyway, so why not just save your energy and let him get on with it?
I think many Japanese women have the expectation that when it comes to sex, they are going to be treated like an inanimate object, and so they act like one. And they have the expectation that their lover is not going to be too concerned about their pleasure, so they don’t expect to enjoy sex very much, and are not very interested in it.
Some guys have said here that getting them to respond is just a matter of giving them enough orgasms. I used to think this too, but what it fails to take into account is that when people have strongly or deeply held beliefs, they tend to only be aware of things that fit in with those beliefs, and ignore everything contradictory. So the fact that a woman is experiencing good sex does not necessarily mean she is going to expect to have good sex in the future. If she really believes that sex is boring, she is going to see the good times as a momentary aberration that will soon pass.
So I think that a frank discussion about expectations is necessary to reach some sort of accommodation. I don’t think it is a matter of forcing western values on a foreign culture, because until 40 or 50 years ago these ideas were unheard of in the West, and they caught on anyway. I think the same thing is happening in Japan and will continue to happen.
james
agreed on all points. you mentioned ‘many japanese women’ some might be tempted to lean toward ‘most’.
though this discussion doesn’t reflect my experience, letting the japanese woman in one’s life know that the feeling of sexual pleasure shouldn’t be an aberration to their held values on sex is key. with this expectation she will give you subtle cues when she’s ready and be more open to your desires.
being open is key. however, it is incumbent upon the man to begin the dialogue in a non-threatening manner.
I am the boyfriend of Nagoyan and I would like all of you to here my side of the story and hopefully give a better understanding of the situation. First and foremost I would like to point out that we did indeed ended our relationship after more than four years. However, I do feel that both of us thought that the break up was eventually going to happen.
Being with someone is not about acceptance. Its about love, love is the easiest thing in the world and if it becomes difficult then you are not in love and it is a mere act of tolerance. Nagoyan messages made me sound like one track type of guy, but nothing could be further from the truth.
After the third month of our relationship everything began to decline rapidly. Our intimacy and enjoyment began to take a back seat to out academic lives. Although I always percieved that a relationship would be a stress release from the daily grind of being a student, Nagoyan thought that being in a relationship was just another task that had to be completed. I feel in this case I recieved someone with an excess of emotional baggage. That baggage was passed on to me.
I always wanted to be the perfect guy, I wanted to be intelligent, fit and be the best guy I could be for her. However I never got that from her. I remember that I wanted her to dress better and become happier, to have her live up to her potential and for awhile she was. All the money I made went to her in improving her appearance. We dined at the some of the most expensive restaurants in the state and the ice she recieved was second to none.
I began to think that she was having confidence in herself and that this could be the one for me, however when she returned back from a trip to japan. Her mother destroyed her confidence along with her self-esteem. Everything went downhill from there. I tried to discuss it but she would agree to chance but it was nothing but lip service. She always said she would, but she never did. I tried to take her shopping again but the clothes she chose were extremely masculine.
To top it off, she ended up kicking me out of her apartment when she decided to take her roommates side who she had known for less than month, and she was my girlfriend for more than three years. I think that incident was really the beginning of the end. I knew that you cannot make people change and it was my fault for wanting to realize her potential.
The rest will be continued in the next message:
to james
and the administrator
would like to email james directly if he’s interested
Eliottsan
[I remember that I wanted her to dress better and become happier, to have her live up to her potential and for awhile she was. All the money I made went to her in improving her appearance.]
having modeled and been in retail sales, i’ve discovered that women don’t generally change their fashion sense for the men in their lives. it’s developed in their teens and perhaps early twenties. the styles they she may have chosen while you were with her weren’t in her reality of self esteem.
look for the woman that already has the fashion sense you desire.
[I knew that you cannot make people change and it was my fault for wanting to realize her potential.]
great observation! you can only coach those that want to be.
*it’s ‘interesting’ how these two discovered the same site. simply good fortune?
To Mitaboy and the administrator, please give Mitaboy my email.
To Eliottsan, thank you for sharing your story,I think there are lessons there for all of us, and I’m glad we are hearing both sides of it. I am sad for you and Naogyasan because breaking up is hard. But sometimes it is the right thing to do. I was surprised to learn it had happened, because it seems that the two of you care about each other and have good communication.
I can relate to your story because I have had big problems with my girlfriend. We have worked through them so far. You mentioned Nagoyan’s mother, it’s somewhat shocking to me how brutal Japanese family life can be. I think that as their partners it’s important for us to understand the many pressures that the Japanese live with, and provide support where we can.
The insecurity about appearances is another factor that we need to be aware of. I once saw a girl refuse to stand in front of a mirror because she didn’t want to look at herself. I have no photos of my girlfriend because she won’t let me take them. While it’s good to compliment them on their appearance, I think that if you want to help them feel confident, in the long term it’s best to de-emphasise the importance of looks. Their fear comes from an intuition that their lives are governed by something over which they have little control. So I try to pay more attention to what girls do than what they look like. As Aristotle wrote, “courage [and confidence] is an awareness of your own power”.
original post from james
[The solution which seems fairly obvious to me is masturbation. But a lot of western guys have resistance to this. Some kinds of Christianity still teach that masturbation is wrong. Some guys think that only penetrating a woman makes you a man, so masturbation makes you less of a man.]
in fact for many men they are just masturbating anyway when they have sex with a woman, just pleasuring themselves – no different than masturbation.
this fact hit home when my girlfriend asked me if i could have sex with a 75 year old woman. let me say that my girlfriend has a great sense of humor and we talk about everything, she usually uses stories.
anyway i said depends on the woman’s fashion sense, how in shape she was and intelligence, i exercise, am fashion conscious, and like to talk after sex. i then asked her if she could have sex with a potbellied man of 75. she said yes, because she could just lay there. basically sex would just to be a task to be fulfilled as part of a relationship. this is what japanese women are used to. they aren’t used to a man caring about their sexual satisfaction.
perhaps it should be said that my girlfriend is a different from other japanese women in that she’s a business owner. she has told me several times that sex helps to reduce stress from her business day.
this is the woman that i’ll probably marry.
a very important aspect of our relationship is that we talked about sex before we had sex. i was honest and direct about my expectations 3 – 5 times a week and that her pleasure was before mine, there were no surprises.
many men will roll their eyes at this, but, learning to give a good massage(20 minutes minimum) helps prepare women for sex. you’ll never been turned down from a massage, or the sex after.
Story continued:
So as time went on she began to dress even more masculine. When I had to attend donner parties I practically had to force her to wear something that looked like it had some sort of femininity. I was looking for the housewife type of woman. One who would be devoted to her family and her husband.
While she said she was that type of woman I never saw the action. Intimacy always felt like it was forced so it was such a turn off there were many nights we ended up doing nothing because I dont believe in forcing anyone to do something they dont want to do and guys that do that are just pathetic!!!!
The passion and love I felt for her was never returned. I felt like if I got kidnapped she would do nothing to find me. I think for her she thought that I was going to accept her the way she was because we had been together for so long. But I warned her that I was not going to. She did not want a japanese relationship, but she was acting like we were in a japanese relationship, (the shut up and take it sort of way!). I adore japanese women, but I will never be a japanese man. Nagoyan was the type of girl that if everything was fine on her end then automatically everything must be fine on my end, but again nothing could be further from the truth.
So the best thing to do was to cut both of our losses and end it….
To Eliottsan
Sorry to hear the relationship is over.
You can’t change a person. If you knew that before… what you were doing might had been, in a way, unfair to her. Perhaps, try to chose a person you do not have to change next time. Other that, I am sure you and she gave the best efforts but they would seem unfortunately not aligned.
“I adore japanese women”
Well, perhaps you should re-examine that.
(1) My Japanese female friends explained to me some differences between generations of Japanese women. If you believe that, it may be the case that the really feminine ones are now in their late forties and fifties – these are the very traditional women who would own and wear a dozen or more of kimonos, know the culture and language very well. Somewhat opposite is the generation now in their twenties – these young women have been very influenced by the commercialized reality, may know little of the tradition and often may have difficulties in handling the subtleties of their own language. “I was looking for the housewife type” – well your future choices may be limited.
(2) In Japanese tradition there is something you may not like as a westerner. It is a virtue to be able to live with difficulties sometimes big ones, maybe even accept them, but still remain happy and very sane. (A traditional) Japanese is much better emotionally equipped to survive hardship because they expect hardship. A Japanese woman may accept a problem as a challenge and live with it. You may need something closer to perfection.
Mita-boy,
I can’t believe that you are considering marriage! That’s great. Although the cynic in me does want you to come back to this forum a few years after you’ve tied the knot to see if things remain the same…
Many people seem to enter into relationships hoping to “change” their partner in some way. It’s never this easy because although people naturally change and grow on their own, it’s difficult and often resisted if *you’re* the one trying to do the changing.
I have a relative lack of experience in relationships, so although I *definitely* know what kinds of women I find attractive, as far as personality and behavior goes I’m very open. In spite of love for her family and cooking, my girlfriend is pretty unconventional – instead of slaving away at college for four years before becoming and office lady and eventually getting married, she’s in music school and wants to become a pro musician. Heck, she already sings and plays live with her band regularly. Now most guys wanting a Japanese girlfriend might give her a try, but end up breaking up and discouraged when they find out she’s not going to be the quiet, dainty, obedient housewife they lust for. But I’m determined to love my girlfriend for who she is, and I’m quite ready to follow her and her ambitions for her life, regardless of how they turn out, because I know she’s a very special person and worth the risk. If I tried to “change” her aspirations, or her sense of fashion, or whatever else, then the relationship would be doomed because she is not a weak, submissive stereotype girl. So I think the lesson is to avoid entering in a relationship with someone if you can’t love her for who she already is.
Another part of it is that while you can’t change the other person in most cases, you can change yourself, and if you perceive a girl as worth the effort, than you can alter your own lifestyle for her sake. But if doing so will only make you miserable, it’s probably better to avoid it. For a sufficiently impressive girl, I would try to be flexible in this area, but careful – you don’t want her to think you’re some sort of easily-manipulated girly man.
i found this site because I live in a sexless marriage with my japanese wife. not to brag, but to prove a point, i have been considered extremely attractive all my life. I have literally had my choice of women, and I chose this japanese girl because she was very nice (not really overly attracted to asians). Well, here I am. Top of the class. bringing in 7 figures. handsome. yet i am in a completely sexless marriage. My wife was taught that sex was bad…so this article seems to be misleading in the beginning. Perhaps the new generation of japanese are more libereral in their sexual openness, but my wife was taught never to have sex. so much so that she doesn’t have sex even in a marriage. I’m really quite sick of it to be honsest. In fact, I may be done with it. Next wife (if any) definately not japanese. or asian for that matter. a nice blonde please.
Getting involved with a non-Japanese woman is no guarantee of a happy relationship. Least of all a blonde, blondes are trouble 🙂
I presume you expressed your view that sex is fun, and that many people enjoy it. What did she say to that? I also presume that you made some attempt to satisfy her sexual needs, how did she respond to that
i am a canadian and i have a japanese boyfriend who doesnt seem to be interested in sex. he starts then stops. i tried to talk to him but hes dismissive.
The way I see “sex” as Japanese, many Japanese people might not see “sex” as something to enjoy, feel pleasure or a sort of entertainment between people who love each other. Some of them might even think “sex” should not be something to enjoy. Personally, I think sexual intercourse is not the altimate goal of cultivating “Love” between them. Instead, it should be one of the ways of creating love, “Make Love.”
I am trying to think of how my notion of “sex” was created, and I think one of the reasons might be the influence of Japanese adult videos or Japanese sexual industry. As you know, Japanese adult videos are projecting very negative image of sex; assault, perverted, no emotion of love, passiveness for women, pleasure only for men, etc…they do not show the real “give and take” and “communication” at all. When I watched those videos first time, I was really shocked. “That’s crazy, that’s ridiculous!!” At that time, I am sure I was still virgin. Imagine, how powerful that experience was and how it could effect on my notion of sex? I believed that they were not projecting the way it should be, but then, how and what the way should be? How should I express my emotion during making love? Then I got confused, “Are they the real ways that usually people are supposed to do?”
I tried to look for the good examples of “making love,” but nobody (no Japanese) showed me the good examples. My parents? No way!! I am sure that they love each other, but I’ve never seen their physical contacts (hugs and kisses) in my life. (This might be the reason that I believe “Love” can exist without sexual contacts between married couples.) Also, I was even taught that any types of physical contact with family members would be considered as inappropriate behaviors when children reached a certain age, around 11 or 12. In other words, how can I express my feelings and emotions of love if I’ve never seen those behaviors around me? if it was not allowed to show those type of emotions?
Maybe Hollywood movies, which you can watch in Japan, can be a little good examples. I remembed that I had longed for the relationship like Hollywood “love commedy” movies, whcih are restricted to show sexual actions but showed romance that Japanese usually don’t have, when I was a teenager. Fortunately, I think that the exposure to Hollywood movies made me believe that Japanese adult videos were crazy and I still want to have relationship with foreigners. But the reality was that, my partner told me “boring” or “I don’t feel anything,” and I realized that I wanted to have the intimacy with foreigners like movies, but I didn’t have any skills to show my emotions in bed. I have never expressed my emotions like people in the movies. I had a lot of hesitation and felt embarrassment expressing myself in bed at the beginning, but after a lot of practices with my partner’s (Eliottsan) support, I got used to it.
Back to the notion of sex, my notion that I used to have in deep inside was that pursuing “pleasure” equals doing like Japanese adult videos. Japanese adult videos are ridiculous; therefore, pursuing “pleasure” is a kind of ridiculous. Fortunately, I don’t feel that way anymore, but I believe that lack of exposure to a sound sexual behavior can really impact on creating the notion of sex. Understanding and behaving are two different things. I understood that expressing “love” for someone is not a bad thing; but when it comes to behave it, I was anxious about doing something forbidden. Besides, Japanese people are usually not good at expressing themselves, that is why Japanese young figure skaters, pianists and athletes are willing to go to other Western countries to learn how to express themselves.
I think that some Japanese people might need to feel secure in order to discard their negative notion of sex and to practice to express their emotions physically.
hills-zoku
thanks! not married yet, but being discussed. have been married before, thankfully sex wasn’t an issue. the day i made up my mind to go ahead with the divorce she asked if we could still have sex. i said, “no’ of course. we are still friend’s.
to the post of 224
“jap” is offensive.
if you don’t have children get a divorce. if you have children take them with you out of the country. guard them carefully because once with the mother you may never see them again, but that is another topic
Nagoyan
“wanted to have the intimacy with foreigners like movies, but I didn’t have any skills to show my emotions in bed” – both Japanese and Hollywood movies are fairytales for adults. Fantasy for masses wanting to feel good voting with their wallets. Really bad choice to try to model yourself unless you want to badly screw your mind.
“I believe “Love” can exist without sexual contacts between married couples” – of course it can but:
1 for man sex is everywhere 😉 – in love or not in love. So it gets to our choices what we do. Choice one would hope is influenced by our “love”.
2 suggest always try to find a boyfriend with an emotional IQ same or higher than you.
3 more likely in the 2nd phase of love… after the infatuation, after brain’s hormonal imbalance goes away. Some say this takes 9 months.
Perhaps read something meaningful about perceptions of love … one I would highly recommend is “The road less traveled” M Scott Peck.
Nagoyan, I have been reading your posts with great interest, and appreciate very much that you share your thoughts here. For some of the guys on this page (yes, including me) this is a really serious issue, one which many can’t seem to fathom or overcome even after a long time trying. What you said about the Japanese pornography industry is true, and when Japanese girls get their first (twisted) taste of the “role” which they are meant to play in sex, I can easily see how it would put them off engaging in it.
I mean, let’s face it, (and even Mitaboy has to agree with me here) Japanese girls get objectified more than any other race in the world. Subjectively (correct me if I’m wrong, with your reasons!), on the outside, they are the most beautiful women in the world. The dark shiny hair, the slightly tan skin, the sleek and slender bodies, the knowledge and means to keep themselves looking and smelling good, and those mysterious eyes! What man could resist? I know I couldn’t. And it wasn’t because I fell in love with these girls I was meeting, it was just because I wanted to have sex with them for these superficial – but extremely seductive – qualities which they possessed. That whether I like it or not, is objectification – the portrayal of girls as mere instruments of sex. Japanese guys and foreigners do it alike, albeit for different reasons. Japanese men do it by their nature (too much weird j-porn in their malleable chugaku years), and Western men do it to fulfill their oriental-submissive-Japanese-maid-anime-otaku fetishes and fantasies.
How to get from that stage of objectification to a loving relationship with reasonably sustainable sex is a HUGE hurdle, which is more than often grossly underestimated. For me, it was a big step, and I still am struggling to get through my sexless periods one at a time (I am not completely sexless yet, but if my wife had her way, we likely would be!).
So, Nagoyan, I would like to ask you (or any other Yamato-nadeshikos out there) a question:
Now that you know that many (all?) men initially look at Japanese girls purely as objects of sexual gratification, or a means to fulfill their “anime fetish” (don’t take that the wrong way – it is only in the first stages until we actually care for the person who lives inside the sexy body), what do you think has to happen for the average Japanese girl to become a fox in bed, and more importantly enjoy it, and stay that way after marriage? Do you think there is any hope at all? I ask this knowing how it must sound, and that it may even come as a shock to you, but all the same, it is very real and certainly an honest and sincere question.
Dear Admins, could you remove or edit the word “Jap” in posts above? It is definitely not appropriate, and could trim someone’s notion to comment here, and we would all miss out then.
Removed the offensive words in posts above. No place for it here. Great discussion happening, let’s not destroy it.
Get the torches out…
Japanese women do get objectified, agreed. Perhaps more than most women.
Let me paint a target on myself because I’m guilty of the same. Though I don’t think the criteria for selecting women in Japan has changed much from my process in Southern California. I’ve always chosen women based on their sense of fashion and whether or not they took care of their hands and feet. Looks, as defined by facial structure, hairstyle, and weight factored in to lesser degree. The reason that they factored in to a lesser degree is that we all look ugly when we get older.
What wins me over with a woman is her intelligence and sense of humor. Elements such as fashion sense and how a woman cares for her body gives me an indication of what she thinks of herself. But her ability to discuss issues and topics below the surface is what locks me in. Attractive women in Japan are a dime a dozen, intelligent women aren’t. The women in my life have all known that I can date an attractive woman easily, not a big deal for me. They know that they are chosen. I’m not an easy lay. I once stopped dating a woman because she read a newspaper article, said it was interesting, I asked her to explain to me why she thought it was interesting, she couldn’t answer even in Japanese, we stopped dating. My tolerance for the inability to express oneself is extremely low.
From a sexual perspective and I think this is where many men err is that they may(I don’t know this to be true) have too much of a pornographic image of sex while engaged in the act. I monitor several website that deal with sexual issues with Japanese women and it’s incredible to realize just how ignorant so many men are. Hint: generally speaking, removing your penis and falling asleep within seconds of having an orgasm or trying to ejaculate all over a woman’s face isn’t her idea of making love.
The reason that I haven’t suffered the issues that are posted on this site is that I genuinely care whether or not the woman that I am in bed with is really sexually pleased. This is not a question in my mind but should be a question in most men’s minds. As I think I’ve stated somewhere on this site I was married before, now divorced, sex wasn’t an issue. My ex-wife asked me whether or not we could still have sex even though we were going to be divorced. Answer, “No!”
Pleasing a woman means from her perspective first, before my own, all the time. For me her pleasure is my pleasure. I make this known all the time. And it seems to shock women all the time that I care. Sex, 3 to 5 times a week is no problem, because she knows she is in for a pleasurable time. Is it just a question of technique, “No!” though that plays a large part of it, and I’d say well over 70 to 80% for most men. The other aspect is showing that you genuinely care about your woman verbally and physically.
I’ve taken the time to study how to sexually please women. I studied it, most men haven’t studied. Many men think by virtue of the fact that they have a penis, watched some pornographic movies, they can please a woman, far be that from the truth. I’ve been stunned by the words women have used to describe how i make them feel, but I’m not surprised by their thoughts because I studied. Surely some men are thinking, “Who the hell does he think he is to say what he’s saying?”
Let me put it in a different perspective. In your profession, you know your level of competence by the preparation you’ve made to be successful. Having a great sex life is no different. Most men aren’t prepared and in many cases don’t deserve the sex that the woman is “giving” them, just because many Japanese women believe that sex is a “duty” in a relationship. Many American women will leave men if the sexual performance is sub par, Japanese women generally don’t.
It also seems a little bit too easy for many foreign men to allow Japanese women to fall into the subservient role of cooking, cleaning and generally becoming a servant. I cover these issues to some degree on my 1001kisses site. None of the Japanese women in my life have ever been asked to cook or clean for me. They’ve sometimes cooked for me on their own volition but it has never been required. They know that with me that we are equals. I often remind them that I’m NOT a Japanese man and I don’t need a maid, mother, or prostitute to perform pornographic movie urges. I actually can and cook clean better than the average woman. I’m interested in a companion.
Light the torch ha hah ha
f_gaijin,
I don’t think Japanese girls get objectified more that any other race. I think Western girls experience exactly the same thing, and in some ways things are worse over here because our mass media is saturated with sexual imagery. Japanese media is quite tame in comparison, and they pretty much never show scantily clad women on TV, let alone actual nudity. Western girls don’t get fetishised and treated like an exotic commodity (at least, not by Western men), but they definitely get treated as providers of sexual services above all else.
You made some unfortunate choices of words. You wrote “the person who lives inside the sexy body”, as if the body and the person can be separated. This is objectification, and I am sure you want to eliminate such processes from your thinking. Language determines thought, if you don’t want to think this way, don’t write this way.
It also might be a good idea to think carefully about what you actually want. What does it mean to become “a fox in bed”. You listed it as a separate outcome from “enjoying it”, so it sounds like you are talking about getting your own needs satisfied. Which would make the question “how can I get a girl to enjoy satisfying my needs”, which leaves out her needs entirely, and that’s clearly the wrong attitude.
In my opinion there are only two important questions.
1. What can I do to give my woman sexual satisfaction?
2. How can I introduce the idea of mutual and reciprocal pleasure to someone who has never experienced it?
There are dozens of websites devoted to the first question. The second is what we have been discussing here, and I think the length of the discussion attests to the difficulty in answering it. It all comes down to communication, and I think patience and persistence is vital. Also listening to and learning from your partner, respecting their views and taking them seriously.
Dear Nagoyan,
Your post was thoughtful, very insightful, and quite touching. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It was quite illuminating for me to read about the influences your parents had on you, because I would think that their views are quite common across Japan. Also your exposure to pornography (and your reaction to it) is probably quite a common experience for both Japanese and Western girls.
I wonder what kind of security is needed for Japanese people to feel comfortable expressing their emotions physically. I guess they would need to feel free to try doing new things without being judged or compared unfavorably with other people? That they would not lose their partner\’s respect, that their partner will not be critical of their efforts. Maybe it comes down to simply feeling that they know how their partner is going to react to what they do.
I was surprised and a little bit overwhelmed by many responses to my post…but, I can definitely say that I enjoy writing on this site because the discussions really make me think so many things, and I am glad that people respect my thoughts.
To f_gaijin,
I have never married, and because of the intimacy issue, I had to break up with Eliottsan (above). So, I cannot give you any advices, but I hope that we could share some helpful views to understand the intimacy issue between Japanese people and foreigners.
mitaboy said very interesting things about Japanese girls in 232;
“…her ability to discuss issues and topics below the surface is what locks me in….I once stopped dating a woman because she read a newspaper article, said it was interesting, I asked her to explain to me why she thought it was interesting, she couldn’t answer even in Japanese,…”
I am not a linguist, but I think this problem comes from the way of thinking process that Japanese people have. I used to have this type of problem when I started going to English conversation schools (Eikaiwa) in Japan (I think I still have it). I noticed that English teachers always asked students “how do you feel?” and “why do you think so?,” because they wanted us to practice to use adjectives, but I had to say “I don’t know” or to keep twisting my neck because I have never thought of “why I think this way.” Those types of question made me annoyed, but I am sure that English teachers were also annoyed since Japanese students even cannot explain their own thoughts and feelings. So I understand why mitaboy’s ex-girlfriend said so and why mitaboy thought that way.
When I took English writing courses in American university, professors always put red marks on my papers, “explain more.” English is a type of language that we have to assume that we don’t know who is going to read your paper, so you have to explain details in order for everybody to understand, and in order to support what you are trying to say. (It is only one of the characteristics of language, but when we learn the different language, we learn more than language. I learned how to express and face myself by learning English.)
On the other hand, Japanese language is very ambiguous. We (among Japanese people) often encounter the situations that we don’t have to describe things, including thoughts, feelings and emotions, precisely to communicate and understand each other (i-shin-den-shin). Also, Japan is (almost) a mono-cultural (ethnic) country and everybody receives the same education and grows up with the (almost) same cultural values. So, people assume that everybody thinks the same way in many situations.
Since it is not necessary to share how we feel about things, I think we even start ignoring own feelings. We might feel something deep inside, but we rarely describe our feelings verbally unless you have a very close friend whom you can share everything about yourself; therefore, we even become unable to explain own feelings. In other words, we might lack of experiences to crystallize our thoughts and might not know ourselves very well compared to foreigners.
In addition, it is considered that it is necessary for us (Japanese) to have the ability to read between lines, which are un-described thoughts, feelings and emotions, and the attempts to read those lines (minds) in order to get along with people. (Whether we actually communicate and understand each other well or not is other story, especially among couples.)
One more thing in terms of Japanese people’s ability to discuss issues;
I think that Japanese people do not have enough experience to create real discussions. If you watched a live broadcast from the Diet (Kokkai Chukei) on TV, which is the meeting of Japanese politics, you will see how woeful Japanese people’s discussions are (basically, it seems that they are just accusing or fighting each other and not productive at all). So I think we do not have enough ability to discuss, which is that foreigners can be satisfied.
Also, it might be the issue of expressing ourselves. When I am in Japan, I always care about what other people might think about me. How they think about my appearance, how they think of my opinion, how they think of my attitude, etc…therefore, it is very difficult for some people to show their opinions because they don’t want to be judged, but I think usually people get used to it as they get older.
Furthermore, my self-esteem has been determined by other people’s judgement (including my parents) for a long time. I noticed this fact two or three years after I moved to the United States. I feel more “free” now, but I cannot discard the value of emphasizing “harmony” completely, which indicates that I care how other people think of me as Japanese.
I haven’t discussed the intimacy issue directly; however, I believe that if you couldn’t express or discuss basic emotions, thoughts and feelings, it is more difficult for some Japanese women to express sexual things. I discussed my personal perspective here; however, everybody is different. I believe that we can overcome the issue of expressing ourselves by practicing. I hope that other Japanese women would support me or bring different perspectives here, but does the fact that there are a few Japanese women drop opinions on this site mean anything??
“gaijin” is just as much an insult as “jap” is but i don’t see the moderator editing it out for us.
I don’t agree with what Nagoyan says about Japanese people having trouble expressing themselves. I know many many Japanese including my husband, male and female, and they all can express themselves even they’ve never been to school outside of Japan. I don’t think they “grow up with the same cultural values”. Everyone has different ideas about what culture actually is, and the fact that you say that you can’t express yourself, is a cop-out, blame it on your country or the society you were born into, but please don’t blame it on yourself, it would be too hard!
Japanese women going out with foreign men is not unique, every second guy i see these days is with an asian girl. They want something different, exotic and unknown but come to this forum with their tails between their legs because it didn’t work out. Gosh. Sorry you expected some kind of inhuman sex-robot…
I also think the basis for your accusations is pretty flimsy. You’re calling Nagoyan a liar because you’ve met “many many Japanese people” who don’t fit in with what she wrote. Well, I think she’s met more Japanese people than you, being born in the country and all. I think you’re jumping to conclusions that aren’t really warranted. If she started lecturing you about Australia, it would seem a little arrogant, wouldn’t it?
As for men wanting sex robots, this seems pretty far from the sentiments that have been expressed here. If you’ve got a point to make then make it. Calling people names does not achieve anything.
James, i said “i disagree” because it is a DISCUSSION. I was expressing my point of view. I did not even say liar in my post once. I was not calling Nagoyan a liar just expressing my view from a stand point. Is that ok or do i have to ask permission?
I didn’t know only white men and Japanese girls could post here.
Oh yes, and you say Nagoyan has met more Japanese than me? If you say so. Cause you’d know wouldn’t you.
I’ve lived in Japan, my family is Japanese and i’ve a pretty good idea what it’s like in Japanese society. Yes it can be pretty excuciating but again it depends on the type of family you’re from. My Japanese family are not that traditional and everyone expresses their opinions pretty freely, both male and female.
My opinion is just as valid as yours, James, so don’t go getting your knickers in a knot.
Sex-robot was in reference to the whole Anime-jap-girl objectification, if someone is going to salivate over jap girls well it’s pretty much a given they are not going to get into the actual person they just want a sex robot to fulfill their fantasies.
Whether Japanese women get objectified or not;
I feel that American women (sorry, I don’t know how’s it like in other countries) get objectified more than Japanese women. Also, it seems that American women sell themselves as sex objects more than Japanese women. This morning, I went to a book store and looked at female fashion magazine section in California. The cover of those magazines lead “Let’s talk about sex…(Vogue)” “The sexiest, prettiest, most flattering looks (Lucky).” We also see other health magazines cover “how to get sexy body” type of things with pictures of bikini women all the time.
On the other hand, if you look Japanese female fashion magazines, they are focusing on more trends, such as the newest handbags of COACH, PRADA, GUCCI, instead of attracting men. I think this fact already shows that “sex” is not important for Japanese female and brand name stuff make many Japanese women happier and those are better than “sex.” I remember that I brought a Japanese female fashion magazine to an English class in American university. The professor showed the class inside of the magazine and asked “what do you think?.” Then, one of the American girls said, “I think they (Japanese women) are covering them up too much.” Her opinion made me laugh and I thought that she got the point.
In this semester, we discussed “sport and the violation of gender” in class, and the professor brought up the issue that (American) women are sexualized in sport. Even in sports magazines, athletes pose sexy look. The bottom line was, “They think that if they can package women athletes in ways that familiar, as sex objects, that they will entertain and sell.” (Michael Messner of the University of Southern California).
I am not quite sure how much American media really project women’s inner thoughts and American women are manipulated by media; however, if American female magazines can be sold more with “sex,” doesn’t it mean that American female have to sell themselves in order to attract men and “sex” is one of the sales points?
For some Japanese women, being “sexy” might mean being like a prostitute or a “mama (hostess)” at snack bar (not a food) in Japan. They wear sexy clothes to attract male customers. Many Japanese people don’t get used to see sexy clothes and accentuated body lines or showing skin, so they over react to it. Sometimes, just wearing skirts get attention from co-workers, especially in country side of Japan, and you have to tolerate middle aged women’s noses; “Why are you wearing skirt today? Are you going to date tonight?”
I think that wearing sexy clothes is ok in appropriate occasions in Japan. But it seems that you have to have confidence because you might have to tolerate other people’s reactions. So go ahead, if you have confidence. (But, sometimes, I feel, I wish I could wear that…very deep inside…because I am a girl.)
I used to feel that the word of “sexy” brought me the impression of being “cheap.” So, when somebody told me “you look attractive,” I felt better than “you look sexy.” Again, maybe it depends on the situations, though.
Yes, when i was in Japan, and it was Summer, i wore singlets and let my lacy bra straps show, which means nothing in a western country, but every Japanese gawked at me and kept staring so i know what you mean about them reacting to it. However, i think if you don’t care about other people’s reactions you can wear what you want, it’s all about feeling happy with yourself.
Western women want to feel sexy and attractive and most of the time it has nothing to do with attracting me, it’s all about the way we feel as women. We are confident in our bodies and we want to feel good about ourselves.
I think the biggest objectifier of women are the women themselves, it is they who buy those magazines with women in sexy poses, if we didn’t think it looked good we would vote with our purses and not buy into it. As women we enjoy seeing other women’s bodies, maybe to compare, or just see beauty in itself. It’s not all about bringing a woman down, the women’s magazines are raising women up, giving them confidence and saying “you too can do this”, giving us confidence in our every day lives.
Sorry that should be *attracting men*
To james,
I think you brought a good point in 233;
“It all comes down to communication, and I think patience and persistence is vital. Also listening to and learning from your partner, respecting their views and taking them seriously.”
I agree. But, it might take extremely long time to get the outcome of your effort. I always feel that even if I took time for explaining myself, foreigners can never understand me completely. Japanese women would compromise easily at this point. So, honestly, I don’t expect men (whether foreign or Japanese) to understand 100 %, but I hope that they would try to understand their partners as much as they can if they love Japanese women. Also, Japanese women have to do the same way. That is mutual. The attitude that they try to understand partners make me “turn-on.” But if you feel it is a waste of your time, you have to leave, because we do not know when you can see what you expect. It might take more than ten years….This can apply to not only inter-racial couples, but also the relationships within the same ethnicity. It might be a good test question.
“I wonder what kind of security is needed for Japanese people to feel comfortable expressing their emotions physically.”
I think your guesses are on the right track, but I cannot say “yes” completely because my partner could not be satisfied….
To azumarisan,
Thank you for your comment. I think your experience in Japan can help to illustrate how Western women and Japanese women react differently very well. I think that it was lucky for you that you did not have any particular feelings to what every Japanese gawked and kept staring at you. If I was in your situation, I would feel that I am doing something wrong. I always try to avoid making that kind of situations by covering up myself, because if I was in a crowded train and a perverted man was getting close to me, I cannot escape. I don’t want to stimulate perverted men.
I have an experience that a perverted man pushed his horny penis onto my butt and started panting beside my ear in a packed subway. I was standing and I thought that other people might have noticed what he was doing, but nobody helped me because they actually couldn’t see what he was doing. I should have shouted but I couldn’t do it because I was scared and confused. I didn’t wear sexy or exposed clothes, but it happened. Since then, I have had to be careful about what I wear. I have to protect myself. Many Japanese women have similar experiences and that is why they made “female exclusive cars” in subway and trains.
I feel that “I don’t care what other people react” in the U.S., but in Japan, sometimes it is difficult.
Thank you for letting me know your view of women’s magazines. You are right that magazines avail to raise women’s confidence. Recently Japanese female magazines use models who won a prize in miss universe or successful women and they are trying to boost Japanese women’s self-esteem. We discussed in a class, why many (American) women want to perform cosmetic surgeries, such as breast augmentation, lipo suction and botox or doing exercise. And we concluded, “women want to look good in naked.” So when do you be necked? The answer is “sex.” That is Western perspective I think. If you asked the same question to Japanese women, they would say that it is because they want to be look good, but they wouldn’t say it is because they want to look good in NAKED.
” I didn’t wear sexy or exposed clothes, but it happened. Since then, I have had to be careful about what I wear. ”
I find this sentence difficult to comprehend. I don’t know why you think you were in the wrong for what you wore, because it is the man on the train who had a problem, not you. It is his fault, not yours. I could never understand your feeling because as a woman i assert myself, and i stand up for myself, and i think i have every right to do the things i want to do in my life, that’s why i am here, so if that man has a problem and did that on the train, even if no-one around you noticed, you did, and why didn’t you shout “hentai!” or “chikan” or something? I’m just wondering is all, because he was in the wrong, and i would have no hesitation in doing that.
We as woman are not lower than men. I think Japanese women have trouble with that idea, but we are not, so if we wear clothes that are sexy and make ourselves feel good, if someone else, a man for instance, had a problem, it is his problem, not ours. If he acts on his attraction it will be his fault for the consequences.
I don’t know about your last sentence, women wanted to look good naked. Maybe they did, but it’s not about being naked. It’s about being comfortable in our own skin, we can wear that bikini and feel good, or the mini skirt. I wear what i like, and i don’t care if my husband likes it or not, if i feel good, that’s the main thing. Of course, i’m going to be sensitive to my husbands feelings and i wouldn’t go wearing something inappropriate like lingerie in the street, but if i feel good about myself, i think people can see that, and they respect you all the more for it.
It’s really hard for me as a woman to accept the way you think, basically because we are taught to stand up for ourselves and take no crap, but you on the other hand feel you have to conform to dressing a certain way so that you don’t excite a man on the train or something, and it’s like, well it feels like you have no rights, and you think you have no rights to dress the way you want to. And it sounds like you think that it is your fault if men are screwed up and look at you in a sexual way.
I think it’s interesting to see what you have to say though and don’t take my comments the wrong way, i’m enjoying having this discussion with you.
To azumarisan,
Thank you for your comment. It was very interesting and funny because I could totally understand your perspective, such that you stand up for yourself, but you don’t understand my perspective. I couldn’t stop giggling. It’s not your fault because the same things happened with my ex-partner; he had similar perspectives just like you. So I kept explaining and explaining to him, but he never understood. So I was not surprised about your comment. What I was surprised was that you had lived in Japan and you have a Japanese husband, but you couldn’t get it. My ex-partner has never been to Japan. Maybe my English was not enough. Let me think for a couple of days to find better explanations. Or if somebody who understand my perspective, please help me here. I think it is something like I can never understand some English jokes even if how much they explained to me. However, if this gap is really critical in the relationship, we have to be serious. Maybe I should have been more serious about this gap when I was with my ex-partner….I mean, I should have looked for better explanations more seriously…
But, I can imagine how great your husband is!! And I enjoy discussing with you, too!!
Japanese women are not accustomed to asserting themselves.. Obedience to authority figures is a very powerful value (for both men and women), people are expected to do what they are told to do by their parents, teachers, the government. If they don’t, they are very harshly punished. So you can really only argue with people of the same social status as you, but confrontation is frowned upon. If you are going to disagree with someone you should do it politely and quietly, so as not to disturb the people around you. In your daily life you should avoid upsetting people around you, even complete strangers.
Confronting a pervert requires a completely different set of skills and attitudes. People have little experience of that kind of social interaction, and it violates a number of norms, so of course women might hesitate before doing it. There is also an issue of physical safety involved, if the man gets angry and you can’t get away from him.
Also, women are expected to subordinate themselves to their husband, which may imply a general expectation that women should be subordinate to men in general. Certainly, assertiveness is not a feminine value in Japan. Positions of power are generally reserved for men, women are not supposed to exert their personal power, that might be considered unusual and therefore bad.
Traditionally, I think sex was viewed as something that a wife had a duty to offer, and a man had a right to take. This gives rise to an attitude that the sexual activities of men should not be questioned, that men are not really responsible for their urges or their behaviour. So when a man sexually assaults a woman, the first response is to blame the victim, to look for some way in which she might have caused it.
We have similar problems in Western countries. However I think we are a little further advanced in dealing with them.
I’ve been following this discussion silently for a while and as far as I can understand it there are two camps:
1) the Western Guys who have seen their sex life with their Japanese wives disappear despite a healthy start and are confused as to why, and
2) the people who claim that the sole reason is that those guys are selfish in bed and just use their wife as a masturbation tool and hence there is no wonder that their wives aren’t interested.
Well I’m in the first camp but would like to redirect the discussion here a little as I feel it is getting a little off topic. I had a wonderful sex life with my wife (then girl-friend) for many years. She enjoyed it and often even instigated it herself. Over the years I have spent more and more time trying to understand her needs and make sure that she is the focus of “the event”. If anything now, I’m “better” now than I was when our sex life was at it’s peak. As far as I can read the thread here it seems to me as though there are a lot of guys like this and that is why they are confused. It would make more sense if it was something that never existed but it is something that has disappeared despite a lot of effort. For this reason I don’t really think the advice submitted by those writers in group 2 really helps. Am I right?
Kanbatsu, there are more than 2 groups here. I think that you guys who are having problems, probably should have marriage counselling before you get married, if you didn’t before you got married, then you should do it now, regardless of how far along in your marriage you are. The reason why, is that then you both will know that you’re on the same page regarding this issue. Of course, people aren’t mind-readers, and i say this because i have been through this kind of thing with my Japanese husband, where he expects a certain thing and i don’t know it because i can’t read his mind.
It takes alot of communication and understanding for a relationship, whether married, or not, to work. The biggest point to me is communication! Talk about what you both want, exchange your ideas, and let someone help you along, guide you. A marriage counsellor, or even a counsellor is a great way to do this as the woman in your life feels safe that she will not be backed into a corner, there is someone there to mediate.
I can say, that you know at first a relationship is shiny and new and you want to do it every day, but as life gets along sometimes women don’t want to do it. Sometimes it’s not just about not wanting to do it, women have very different emotions to men and sometimes we have hormonal imbalances and problems such as those. It can’t all be blamed on culture and society, there are other underlying issues.
For example, when i got married to my husband yes we were like rabbits. But then i started taking hormones to get pregnant and my emotional state was all over the place, not to mention the hormones made me feel nothing, i couldn’t get aroused, i couldn’t orgasm, it was terrible. The best thing was that my husband, although he was frustrated, stuck with me, understood that it wasn’t my fault, it was the drugs i was taking, and through his love and encouragement we found a way. At one point i was so over sex, i didn’t want to do it all, it actually hurt me to have sex, but because of his love and commitment to me, we are still married 5 years later, because he took the time to understand me, we both communicated about it to each other, what we were feeling etc. I was pretty embarrassed but if you share the problem it is lesser.
I think the key word is communication. I don’t think anyone’s opinion on here is of lesser value, the point is it’s a discussion and we all come from different backgrounds, but it’s interesting to see the different points of view. Kanbatsu i wish you luck with your relationship. I can’t help feeling though that you lift up the words “the event”, maybe that is why your wife is backing off? If you played it down a little bit, she might feel more at ease. Cheers 🙂 (i can only say that is coming from a woman’s point of view)
kanbatsu
for the sake of discussion it may be possible that two categories of postings exist. though based on what has been written on this thread they aren’t significant numbers in group two.
perhaps considerably less that 50%, again based on the postings. if i’m in error, then please point out such.
as you state you are in group two and you have gotten ‘better'(i’m not sure that the women in most men’s lives can say that) then i am certainly puzzled as to why your sex life is less than you wish it too be. while nothing is ever 100% your dissatisfaction must be low enough for you to post here.
my first question is how has your lifestyle changed? therein may lie an answer
Well the main change for me has been my heightened focus on what my wife wants or might want. I’ve read lots of books and try to spend as much time as I can getting her relaxed and helping her enjoy both ordinary life and that after dark.
I’m not sure where you have studied, Mitaboy, but as far as I can tell everything you have written on this page is verbatim out of “Mars and Venus in the Bedroom: A Guide to Lasting Romance and Passion” by John Gray. Now there’s nothing wrong with that. I enjoyed the read despite the crass title. Infact, Nagoyan, you might find it interesting even though I think it is more written for the benefit of men.
So for that perspective, Mitaboy, can I ask you directly? What do I do if she wont let me help her to enjoy sex more. By that, specifically, I mean that she just doesn’t want me to touch her “downstairs” at all (hand, mouth, you name it). How can I help her to feel good if for her it is some sort of taboo. Have you run across a woman like that before?