With maid cafes where pretty young girls that ooze submissiveness to their “masters”, and “shuccho health” (出張ヘルス, basically, dial-a-prostitute) and soap-lands (sensual bathing houses with soapy special service) to vending machines for porn, and specialty shops with used high school girl underwear; Japan, at least on the surface appears one of the most sexually proactive nations in the world. Japanese men are as perverted (if not more perverted) than those in other countries, and as for the ladies, on top of being naturally feminine (with petite sexy bodies, skin that doesn’t seem to change complexion from childhood, pretty faces and silky black hair), the women of Japan have no misconceptions about what style – clothes, perfume and make up – makes a man stop in his tracks, and rouse that tingle in his loins.
When interacting with others, sex and everything surrounding it is fair game for a topic of conversation in Japan and, it is certainly not frowned upon by religious groups or society at large as it is in the USA and other countries. When it comes to secreting sexual hormones and sexuality in general, almost nothing is taboo in Japan – until that is, the day one gets married, or so it seems. Indeed in stark sexual contrast, Japan may be suffering from a sexual drought, where being totally open about sex and being sexy in general, doesn’t seem to be converted into the ins-and-outs of baby making when it comes to married couples.
Shown in these statistics, a recent survey by Japan’s health ministry found that as many as one-third of all marriages in Japan are sexless. The problem is now so widespread that the government fears it is a major contributor to the dramatic plunge in Japan’s birthrate (now only 1.28 births per woman). This sexless phenomenon is not only found in those relationships that are plunging down the drain toward divorce, but to the contrary, more and more couples that consider themselves healthily married (and have no intention of separating), have not had sex with each other in the last month or more (the common definition of “sexless” in Japan), with many saying that they have not had sex together in the last 6 months to one year.
According to the most recent survey of 41 nations last October, the average Japanese has intercourse 45 (and according to Bayer Pharmaceuticals as low as 17) times a year, compared with the global average of 103. Japan is repeatedly at the bottom of the list. Last year it trailed Singapore, which was 28 shags a year higher!
The term “sexless”, was first used in Japan in the early 1990s, but now is instantly recognizable to the Japanese as a universally understood concept, and widely discussed in the media. There are books on the subject and thousands websites and heartbreaking blogs discussing sexless Japan, while letters on the subject fill agony columns on “dear doctor”-type sites.
One in five sexless couples say they view sex simply as a nuisance. A small number cite the lack of a private space, because children or elderly parents often sleep just the other side of a paper-thin door, leading many married couples to even sleep in separate rooms. Mitsui Home announced recently in an Asahi Newspaper article, that in 30% of the new houses they build, the couples are asking for 2 “master” bedrooms. This is a shocking statistic, which shows that sexless couples want to continue living their lives together – separately! “We are sort of room-mates rather than a married couple”, one 31-year-old man, who had not had sex with his wife for two years, told the Asahi Shinbun.
There are many other theories about why the Japanese become less inclined to raunchy evenings in the sack together, but likely it is a mixture of some of these:
- Stress of work/life in Japan (maybe the taihen cloud?)
- Lack of understanding, and usage of contraception, especially “the pill” (who wants to use condoms with their wife!?), making sex with your wife viable only when you want to have a baby
- Abundance of 不倫 (furin, or extra-marital) relationships
- More and more Japanese women choosing career over family
- A tendency among Japanese married couples to feel an aversion to sex with their spouse, not because they dislike one another, but rather because they feel that they have more of a sister-brother relationship; the sanctity of which would be destroyed with a repulsive incest-like feeling, by what westerners would consider normal conjugal relations
The last point is an interesting one, as in the past, it has been traditionally Japanese women who complained that they couldn’t see their hubby “as a member of the opposite sex.” But in the last few years, there’s been an exponential increase in men who can’t view their wives as sexual partners either. While it is true that many Japanese married couples seem to be sexless in nature, they key thing to remember is that this certainly does not mean that they lack the desire for sexual fulfillment. While marriage and children may bring on a sex drought in the home, Japanese people who want (and in the case of most men, need) sex do not simply abstain from sex because they cannot see the feminine qualities in their own wife, or the sexual attraction of their hard working husband.
Japanese men love their companies; they live for work, and many don’t even think it is a problem if they don’t have sex with their wives. They have pornography and the sex industry (soap lands, cabaret bars, and dial-a-girl services, and trips to Taiwan) to take care of their needs, but their wives have nowhere to go. They just suffer in silence.. or do they? The divorce rate in Japan has nearly doubled in the past 10 years, with more women blaming their sexually inactive, as opposed to sexually errant, husbands for break-ups. Though they may not be seeking sexual pleasure from their better halves, married Japanese women are seeking intimacy from other sources (many even claim to have a sex addiction), leading double lives – being the good mother, while at the same time seeking out “Leroy” the lover, who is always lurking, and ready to fulfill her every desire.
Japan is full of temptation, and it doesn’t matter whether you are a housewife or salary-man, there is plenty of raunchy action waiting out there – if that is what you desire. Furin sites to find a (extra marital) “sex friend” partner are just as rampant in Japan as in other countries, however they are much more widely used by women in Japan to solve their sexless quandaries. For the more conservative ladies, sites like mixi.jp – which are neutrally classed as “social networking” spaces – are abound with profiles (men and women) looking for partners to secretly spruce up their sexless, but otherwise happily married lives.
Many Japanese marriages may be sexless, but this is only a statistic about the state of sex within marriage itself. In fact, there may be a good reason for the sexless condition of marriages here – Are the Japanese getting enough of the good stuff outside their marriages to keep them happy? I certainly think so.
Japanese people will never be sexless as individuals; therefore Japan is not sexless, so don’t let mere statistics confuse the situation!
(If you are married in Japan, or married to a Japanese, let us know what you think of “Sexless Japan” by leaving a comment below!)
Their mainstream media is incredibly tame compared to ours. You ever see a girl in a swimsuit on TV? Let alone a pair of actual breasts. I don’t think the Japanese are brainwashed the same way we are. But for some reason they still turn to pornography, which is addictive and will interfere with normal sexual functioning. I think if Jen’s husband didn’t have access to porn he would be more interested in her. Most likely he’s watched so much porn he’s no longer able to be excited by normal sex with a real woman.
Heinrich,
You may want to consider that other men’s experience with their Japanese wives are not identical to yours … I have been married 14 years to a Japanese woman and sex has never a problem. Romance and passion are still in tact as well. And my wife never wanted to sleep with our child instead of me. Has my marriage always been easy? No. Whose is? That being said, Japan has always occurred to me as an erotic country.
Happylovesit,
I am also a western woman who is engaged to a japanese man. i agree with other posters that he is still a japanese at heart. with time, you will see how much so. he is attempting to assimilate himself with English culture because by becoming more international, he rises above the average japanese person. Never underestimate the value of learning english for a japanese. when he considers his relationship with you, believe me he factors in the language practice. this has become an area of contention for myself and mine. i am currently learning japanese (it relates to my work) and i spend a good deal of time in tokyo living with him. he does not help me with the language at all. not fair. he simply does not see the need to invest that kind of time and energy into our relationship. parallel lives.
as for the “ex” he probably hesitates to get rid of her because he wants to do what society (and his parents) tell him to do. marriage is on the “to do” list of japanese, and once it is completed they check it off. love, passion, knowing each other are not the fundamental basis for a marriage. societal sanction is. he may not have any intention of ever marrying a western woman.
he also works like a dog, is emotionally and physically unavailable to me. he says he is trying to change his ways, but he is so confused, that i doubt it will ever happen. we have known each other for 10 years, in that time he has never once placed me above his work. i feel like i am dating a married man, his job is his wife. we western women expect to be the number one priority of our men, or at least they should act like we are. for example, he will not fly to hawaii to meet me when we are separated for months at a time. he does not attempt to contact me for weeks at a time, forget about romance. don’t expect i miss you, i love you, gazing into your eyes, etc.. unless he says and does these things very awkwardly. he knows that is what westerners do.
about the romance. he behaves out of obligation, not romance. you can watch the sunset together, but you will experience it very differently.
now about the sex. he is very giving and skilled, but yes, kissing and hugging are not the same. how can i get him to open his mouth??? he views spending the day in bed as a waste of time. like all other things, he is very mechanical sexually. as for the topic of this forum, we are not sexless in terms of frequency, but i miss lovemaking with a western boy. passion, romance, a warm body. i frequently describe my partner as cold, distant, and absent.
i should also mention that he is faithful, and uber-committed.
Been having a good old read of this thread which dates back a few years I think…
Well, I’m on Japanese wife No. 2 and sex went out of the window when she was pregnant which is 7 years ago now. I have tried and tried to rekindle our sex life but to no avail.
Now,I have a girlfriend who is also Japanese and sex with her is fantastic. In fact I now understand that what I did have with my current wife was not so great as it was all about me doing the work in the bedroom – she just lay there, but as she was a real stunner I could kind of put up with it.
However, I know that if I were to divorce (again), and get married to the girlfriend, history would probably repeat itself, despite being assured to the contrary.
I have a daughter who I want to see grow up and realise that divorcing would wreck both our lives. I have two kids from Japanese wife No. 1 who I never see because she continually gave me the run around with visits. So I have just given up for my own emotional/mental health.
I’m 44 now and as horny as I was when I was half my age. I decided at the start of this year that I was going to get myself a girlfriend as I was sick and tired of paying for it and jacking off in front of the computer. My life has been transformed because of this encounter. I used to be so depressed by the situation especially as this marriage is second time around for me. (Japanese) Women seem to go off sex when they get married. I have never met any gaijin who said that wasn’t the case.
Incidentally, I have a British friend who is married to a Polish woman who has exactly the same problem. They have 2 kids. He uses escorts occasionally but is unhappy in the relationship because of the lack of sex.
I need regular sex and will continue to get it as long as that need persists. But as I have the kid, divorcing for me right now is the wrong thing to do. I did it before and it has damaged the lives of my two other kids.
sorry to ramble. just getting the thoughts down as they popped into my head.
your thoughts would be very much appreciated
Treehugger,
Thanks for your post. Although he is fluent, I’m sure he is as much interested in having a Western girlfriend as I am a Japanese boyfriend in terms of furthering language skills, which I’m sure you’ll agree is no good basis for a relationship.
What you said about marriage really hit home. I remember him saying to me that he is now XX years of age, and as his parents are now elderly he needs to marry quickly in order to please them. He said therefore, every girl he meets he must consider as a prospect for marriage. Perhaps that is indeed his prerogative to stay involved with his ex.
Well anyway, I’m now sure that we can’t provide each other with what we need in a relationship, due to both personality and cultural barriers, never mind the extra complications with other people in both of our lives. I must say this experience has wholly put me off the idea of having any kind of relationship when I move to Japan next year.
It’s a shame that cultural differences in relationships seem to be such a huge issue, and would be very keen to hear of any good experiences!
Anru wrote: “(Japanese) Women seem to go off sex when they get married. I have never met any gaijin who said that wasn’t the case.”
That hasn’t been my experience. I have been married almost 15 years to a Japanese woman and she is as horny as ever. You may want to consider taking responsibility for what occurs in your life for wherever you go there you are.
@kayumochi Thanks for your comment. Are there any other people subscribed to this thread that can confirm that Japanese men/women do not go off sex when they get married? I think that lack of sex among married couples is a problem everywhere in the world, so it would be good to hear more from people who have a Japanese husband or wife who have a successful sex life after marriage. As with any forum, the people with problems tend to post the most, so let’s please hear some success stories! ^^
I must agree with Anru, I have never met a gaijin woman married to a Japanese man who has had a good sex life after a few years of marriage or living together.Their men are pretty much the same as the women , if this is any consolation for the foreign men.
I think staying in a bad relation just because you have kids will be bad for the kids moral in the long run, don’t you think that the kids understand what is going on between the parents??
I am a normal gaijin woman with a normal sexual appetite , but my partner never shows any kind of interest in having any intimacy with me after a few years of having been together. I am in my 2nd long term relation with a Japanese and the 1st one was almost the same.
This is the reason why the Jap. population is in decline, the just have no space for sex in their lives. It is only work, watch TV and sleep whenever and where ever they can. They have the life beaten out of them.They are a sad people and a dying race.
kayumochi,
Lucky you! I would say that you are the exception rather than the rule. Or maybe you have an incredibly low sex drive and the “once or twice a year” counts as high excitement and romance for you. You say your wife is “horny as ever” – please quantify. Does she ever initiate?
You are fortunate that your wife didn’t want the kid in the same room. Did she have experience of a foreign culture when she was brought up, or did you just assert yourself on this point?
Amber,
I think that staying in a relationship where there is a constant tirade of abuse/arguing is bad for a kid, and in that case a split would be advisable. In fact that was the situation with my first Japanese wife who was a bully and on 2 occasions caused lasting physical damage to my face!She is also involved in a very powerful religious sect in Japan that has a strong political arm, as well as coming from a family where DV was the norm. I do not have this with my current Japanese wife, but my daughter is very much aware of the total lack of intimacy – she sometimes demand that we hold hands or put our arms around each other. My wife will laugh it off or just change the subject and it doesn’t happen for more than 10 secs if at all.
Mike,
Thanks for raising the question: Are there any other people subscribed to this thread that can confirm that Japanese men/women do not go off sex when they get married?
Interestingly there have been no postings as yet ………
Arnu, yes, my wife does initiate and sex 2-3 a week is ideal for her but honestly it is often a bit less than that for us. Once we moved from her parents place 6 months after the baby was born (we all three were in the small same room) we were relieved for the baby to have its own room and that is the way it is today … more than 10 years later. And no, she had no foreign influence growing up in the hinterland of Japan.
I am assuming your first wife was SGI. Odd thing, religious-minded Japanese, whether it be SGI or Christian. I stay away from them. My wife works for a SGI man and is disgusted by him and the whole sect.
Another thing: both Japanese men and women seem to believe themselves simply not sexy after marriage/childbirth even though there is no evidence that they are not. They believe it to be true and so it is for them.
kayumochi,
You sound like you have a good marriage with intimacy and affection. That’s great. I wish you well.
We currently don’t live in Japan but plan to return there in November permanently. Interestingly the sexless problem has been much worse here in the UK than it ever was in Japan. Partly due to her being depressed because she hates living in the UK I guess. It’s all quite frustrating as it was her idea to come here in the first place! I was dead against it from the start, but eventually gave in. Maybe the move back to Japan will get things going again. Our daughter is six and has her own room which will continue when we move to Japan.
The feeling unsexy after marriage/childbirth is an interesting point.She has certainly let herself go in the last 4 years. She’s curvy (which I like) but she classifies herself as obachan – a deathknell to any kind of physical intimacy. She believes that sex was something we did in our younger years.She admits she has no sexual feelings, but doesn’t want to do anything about it.
I am resigned to going back to Japan – she has refused to work for the entire time we’ve been here and I can’t do 12-hour days six days a week any longer. London is so expensive. I know I’ll be paying a third of what I do here on rent as well as food etc being cheaper. I’m not holding my breath for the relationship. What will be will be. I’ll just have to accept and deal with it in the way I’m doing now. Divorce just seems too easy.
Arnu, actually we left Japan 3 years ago after more than 10 years of marriage all spent in Japan but it was my idea to come to the States, not hers. While one one level things have worked out here (school for our daughter, house) on another level they haven’t (she misses her family, financially it has been tough). Sometimes she clearly isn’t happy here in Atlanta. As I said, it was my idea to come because after 14 years in Japan I was in a rut and after arriving here I immediately felt a burst of energy and felt better than I had in years. Yet I find myself wanting to return to Japan because life here seems so complicated sometimes, especially the situation with health insurance coverage. In hindsight I simply needed a break from Japan but at the time I thought the answer was to leave for good. Now when I mention returning she gets mad at me because I brought her here.
I will have to give my wife credit for taking care of herself and staying attractive and not falling into that all to common “I am an obachan” mindset. Her Japanese friends here have fallen into that and it shows.
Anru: I know your story, and I have heard this song before. It goes like this, “It will get better when….”
But here is the bad news. It doesn’t get better. I know.
When your more curvy Japanese returns to Japan, the land of thin women, she will be greeted with , “FUTATA NEH!!” which literally means, “HEY! YOU GOT FAT!!”.
Your wife will stuff herself with all the “good Japanese” food she missed. Mine did, and she got fatter in Japan, despite blaming the American diet.
Add to this, getting divorced in Japan would be a nightmare for a gaijin. Child visitation doesn’t exist in Japan. The kid goes with the mother and her family. You gaijin-woman-stealer-barbarian will be sh#t out of luck. Japan is a non-Hague nation in terms of child custody, so don’t think an English/American/Klingon court decision will be worth a hill of beans in a Japanese court.
To save your marriage, you need to get tough. Tell your sexless wife to step up, or she will be a divorcee in England… Get counseling, tell her to get off her dead TV watching ass. After I left her, my ex was forced to get a job, pay the bills and do everything herself… something she was NOT used to.
I know you want to “keep the peace” as I did, not one wants to fight. But looking back, maybe I should have fought with her more, instead of just divorcing her. Not so much for her sake, but for the sake of my children.
I must say I am MUCH happier since the divorce. I found a nice Polish girl and promptly spent the following 18 months catching up for the sex I DIDN’T have with my sexless Japanese wife. 😉
Anyway, I wish you all the best in whatever you do. I always advise men I know NOT to marry Japanese women.
When I was married, I once asked my ex-wife what she was looking forward to in life. She said, “I can’t wait to be a grandmother!”
She was 30 years old when she said that.
kayumochi,
So we have almost a reverse situation re which partner wanted to get out of Japan in the 1st place.
Interesting coincidence that we were both there for 14 years. I really needed a break from Japan and it was that that finally made me accept my wife’s idea of leaving. Life is tough financially, though it seems your wife is working which is great.
If I’m honest, my wife wanted to leave after about 6 months of being here. But I was like “F**k you! I just gave up permanent residency to be here – make it work!”About 3 months ago I admitted to myself that being “right” and being “happy” are mutually exclusive a lot of the time and that in fact a return to Japan would suit me as well as it would her. I’m 44 and a qualified English teacher (both here and in Japan) and I know there’ll be work for me somewhere out there when I go back.
This is a thread about sexless Japan but it’s certainly giving me food for thought about how our standard of living/lifestyle can impact on intimacy, affection, sex etc.
”I can’t wait to be a grandmother!” Frightening, as I have heard it before and when I do I look at my wife in amazement asking her “Why?”
kayumochi: Why do Japanese women look forward to being Grandmothers? Easy.
In Japan, the Grandmother is usually taken care of by her children and grandchildren. She can say whatever she pleases, she is not expected to work, clean a dish, cook a meal… she is basically a pampered princess.
This was the life my ex-wife aspired to.
Arnu, it is interesting we are the same age and we both were in Japan 14 years. Funny thing was, immediately after leaving Japan I had more sexual energy than I had in years. It has tapered off since then but then it really isn’t fun being horny ALL the time. For a while here I worked at a media company that employed a lot of intelligent, well-educated, sexy women younger than myself – the place smelled of sex and I could have gotten my share had I pursued it. Years ago in Japan both my wife and myself had other sex partners (well, I had one and she had more than one) for a short time and it did wonders for our marriage. Even today we talk about doing it again and I wish I had at the media company. Yes, my wife is working part-time and it keeps her sane.
kayumochi
your message is so heartening to read!! i recently counseled a german acquaintance to divorce his wife whom he hadn’t sex with for 6 – 7 years. yet he says, “we LOVE each other”
he has had girlfriends sporadically with whom he has had sex with occasionally.
yours is more the exception than the rule as japanese statistics will verify, however, it is my experience that if the japanese woman is encouraged to discover sexuality she can become quite a companion.
heinrich – perhaps if you were to look for qualities a little deeper than sexual appertite in a partner there would still be a relationship left when the sex dries up. Just a thought.
Heinrich,
Thanks for the comment. I know about the divorce / kids’ visitation rights nightmare from Japanese wife No. 1. I am glad you have found a partner that satisfies you.
kayumochi,
Yes, my sexual energy went off the scale when I got back home to the UK. Just generally more stress free despite a heavy workload. You and your wife seem to have an open and healthy sex life. The “other partners” would be impossible here – well, with both of us fully aware what the other was up to anyway.
My girlfriend was a very majime, inexperienced woman of 35 who has taken to the whole thing like a duck to water. I have a very open sexual relationship with her and this makes us very close. She will return to Japan next April. It would be nice to see her there but I am fully aware that life here can’t always be replicated there.
Re sexual energy tapering off try Maca. I have been using that stuff on and off for about 5 years and it really does work. Feel 18 again, but with the experience of a 44 year old!It’s not like “the little blue pill” – it gives you benefits of overall stamina with sport and work, even decreases stress too.
Happielovesit – thanks for your comment…
You are right, it is important to find someone who can grow with you as a partner.
My Japanese wife once remarked to me, “Why did you marry me? We have nothing in common”.
Which is true.
I am well educated, she had no interest in school.
I read books, she watched TV.
I love languages and learning about other cultures, she didn’t wish to associate with anyone who wasn’t Okinawan.
It was more than just a lack of sex.
“if the japanese woman is encouraged to discover sexuality she can become quite a companion.”
I have know both types: those that are uptight and either pretend or are not interested in sex and those that have a sexual history. I recall one woman I “dated” (she dated me actually) who never seemed really interested in sex, only dating (and getting married I found out later). Once when I managed to get her clothes off she lay there like a corpse and thought it odd that I didn’t fuck her after all that work. Sorry, but necrophilia isn’t my thing. Later when it became clear to her that she didn’t stand a chance with me unless she loosened up, she did her best to be sexual but by then it was too late and I had lost interest. There was another woman who was a bit older than me and had divorced quickly after marriage (omiyai) and had resigned herself to spinsterhood. She looked great and god knows I wanted to fuck her but she too was in rigor mortis. I am sure she is somewhere miserable wondering why life passed her by … Other the other hand there was that high school senior who gave me a great blowjob and must have been fucking for years.
kayumochi
The necrophilia factor or “maguro” (dead tuna) with Japanese women is so common.
My wife says it’s the man’s role to do all the work, all she should have to do is lie there. That is such a big turn off for me and I have lost interest for precisely that reason. The last time we had sex was 5th April 09, and I had to do everything. About 2 months ago I thought I should initiate again and she just lay there and I gave up after about 10 mins of giving foreplay and getting nothing in return. I couldn’t even get an erection – I was stone cold. She commented afterwards that I was too old and shouldn’t worry too much about sex anymore. “Yes,” I thought, “certainly NOT with you.”
The return to Japan is getting closer and I am asking myself if I really want to do it. Part of me says “leave” the relationship and let her and the kid go back by themselves. I want to tell her about the girlfriend and take the chance of everything falling apart. Japan can be a lonely place for gaijin. It’s not the same as London for sure. Can I live there again and survive that? If I had a solid loving relationship I think I could, but what I have at present has no intimacy and love. All we have is an incredible sense of duty to our daughter. That’s a lot of pressure for a six year old, even unknowingly.
It’s been awhile since I wrote here the last time.I was just reading the guys recent correspondence above.Its interesting and its just funny since all my Japanese friends-married-to-japanese guys(that Ive had a heart to heart talked) wants the life you guys wives has. Most of them says they wishes and wonders what it would feel like being love,being hug anywhere w/o worrying about people watching,being held hands to,being told I love you from time to time,all those sweet nothings.In short they dreamt(who hasnt) the kind of affection youve been giving your wives.Its their ultimate fantasy.They wonder what it feels like being love by a western man or even not western atleast gaijin(who doesnt share the japanese-asian culture).
Im pretty sure they silently look at those women-(in gaijins arms)with envy.That doesnt mean they dont love their husbands,its just that its an unspoken love.Their love is shown by the devotion to keep the family intact,to raise the kids,keep a confortable house,to help their husbands in anyways in making decisions and be his rock(theyre really strong though),their love is shown in making him feel like a king,making him feel like he has a happy home with kids having both otousang and okaasang(that is his inspiration to work hard anyway).
Then theyd say my husband doesnt talk to much,not even nihonggo,my husband doesnt say anything when we eat or in a cafeteria,hes not much of a talker but then he is a good husband and father,he really works hard for us (which is true,japanese men works like a cow)they dont rest even on holidays if possible(I wouldnt go into that).But then yeah what can we do they grew up in that kind of culture,how can you expect someone to show and initiate affection when shes never been hug even by her parents all her life,how can you expect her to be submissive when shes very confused.
My friends ask me often times how come its so easy for me to shower my kids with kisses and cuddles in public as If I dont care(by the way they turn their heads away whenever they see these situation though,they get shy seeing me instead of me getting shy).They want to do it they love their kids they just cant.Another friend told me If her japanese husband hugs her and tells herhe loves her one day she would think its “okashii” very strange and he must have gotten mad since he has never done it. So guys from their hearts of hearts your japanese wives likes the affection youre giving they just cant initiate,and if they pretend its so okashii and superficial,its so hard to be a fox when youre a wolf. So to all those husbands if you can still,just keep it fup,keep the affection flowing even though they shove it off,theyll embrace it w/o realizing.If you keep heating up wet charcoal in a stove eventually one while fire up.Hang in there I dont think divorce is an option,its so costly in these economy you dont wanna look back someday and say damn I shouldnt have done it,wish Ive steadfast,If only I have tried to adore,I could never have asked for more.
Thanks Yubi I appreciate your words. there’s a lot of truth in there.
Food for thought without a doubt
To Anru:
Glad I could help a lil bit with the thoughts.I really hope you’ll be able to save your marriage as I did with mine. If you are interested you and your spouse can check the book titled “The Marriage Masterpiece” or “His needs,Her needs” its insightful.She might understand you more and you will understand her better.Goodluck
Arun, to clarify: you were once married and divorced a Japanese woman and have a child by her you don’t see. You are now married to another Japanese woman who has a child by you and who wishes to return to Japan. You currently have a Japanese girlfriend in London. Hmmm … if you don’t mind me saying so you may want to consider having a fling with a woman of your race and background in London before either going to Japan with your wife or taking up with ANOTHER Japanese woman. There is something you are not seeing that only you can ….
I am with you kayumochi.
As an American man who has divorced his Japanese wife, I WOULD NEVER marry or date a Japanese woman again. I even avoid Chinese women, since I have heard similar things about their lack of passion.
Of course, every woman is different…
That isn’t quite what I meant Heinrich. Arnu has a blind spot. There is something he isn’t seeing that he needs to see no matter what he does next. In fact, when he sees it he will know exactly what to do.
You say you are in London Arnu? Get yourself to the Landmark Forum for a weekend. Trust me, things will be much clearer.
It is a shame that nobody has posted some of their positive experiences, isn’t it?
I feel that this thread just isn’t very constructive anymore. Although there is a lot of truth written about the differences between the Japanese culture and other cultures, far too many of the posts here are (I think) extremely negative, exaggerated and often inaccurate. Neither having been married or having been in a relationship with a Japanese woman for more than a couple of years, I can’t speak much from experience, but in my 7 years learning the Japanese language and culture and talking with many different Japanese people about this topic I can say that, as with any society, there are far more variations between individual Japanese people than this thread leads us to believe. In short, I have met sexually-open and pro-active Japanese women, at least in the dating stage.
I would say that with more open communication about a couple’s expectations, many of the sort of problems raised in this thread could be avoided or partially solved, especially with discussion in the earlier, developing stages of a relationship. Of course, I have little right to say such bold statements having no marital experience myself, so that’s why I asked for more balanced input from married couples.
But then, why would happily married (and sexually-active) people be reading a thread about sexlessness in the first place?
Mike, if you had read this thread completely you would have seen that I have been positive regarding my 14 year marriage to my Japanese wife. A single person commenting on married life is like a virgin commenting on sex or a childless person commenting on child rearing.
@kayumochi I’ve been following this thread for nearly a year and have read it in its entirety. I asked for more positive comments in addition to your own experience. It is my humble opinion that anyone is free to comment on issues such as these providing they make clear their background and experience, and I did make it very clear that my opinion was a bold statement based on the people (both married and not married) that I’ve talked to do date.
Indeed you did but to comment that this thread is no longer constructive is out of your depth. How would you know?
It seems women are the more miserable sex:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/opinion/20dowd.html
Although I cannot comment from experience on what post-martial relations are like, I do have some knowledge of Japanese culture and values. Also, the original post was about sex in Japan, not strictly sex within marriage. I’ve lived and worked in Japan for a couple of years and studied the culture and language a lot which, while it can’t compare to 15 years of marriage, is certainly not out of its depth.
My frustration is mainly because of the overwhelming number of comments bashing Japanese women. Many of the comments I’ve seen have been exaggerated views of Japanese society and the writers make no attempt to be introspective and consider how their own values affect how they look at things.
I’m certainly not any sort of expert on Japanese society, but it is quite clear that many of the comments here really don’t consider the issues in a balanced manner – that observation requires no knowledge of Japanese culture at all. I know many people are just letting off steam, which is fine, but in a post as popular and highly ranked in the search engines as this, I just wish there was more discussion about value-differences rather than ridiculous statements like ‘don’t marry a Japanese women’ and ‘they are a sad people and a dying race.’ People stumbling across this post and reading it get a very skewed view of Japanese society.
Interesting thread. I’ve been married for 13 years now to a Japanese woman, and we’ve certainly had our ups and downs. Married in Japan, kid born two years later, then a month later discovered wife’s infidelity about nine months into our marriage with a former lover, and shortly thereafter moved back to the US (when kid was really young) in a fit of “I refuse to leave myself in a position of weakness where you could really and permanently screw me over, particularly with a kid” pique. Other than that, typical story: Lots of sex before marriage, then tapering off after the first six months or so, until she really didn’t want to have anything to do with me (though admittedly there were complicating factors that I only discovered later).
Moving back to the states was traumatic for me (and she was really reluctant to come), as I had planned to stay there permanently, and the transition was difficult in the early years. But it has been a good move for our marriage: After floundering around for a couple of years in a silly office job, I went to professional school and now earn far more than I did as an English teacher in Japan. I’m not sure if that explains the change, but ever since starting school, our sex life has been generally quite good. Part of this certainly is the result of changed expectations: I have accepted the fact that she does not initiate sex, and that I need to guide her if I want her to do anything to me. I have also learned not to whine about not getting enough sex. More often than not, I generally take without asking – I think she prefers not to verbalize sexual matters – and she usually is willing (if she is not, I desist, without whining). By the time we get to intercourse, she is invariably enthusiastic.
I think a lot of it has to do with providing for her – we really did live in some true hovels in Japan – and in acting like a man. I speak Japanese well, but it tends to come across as feminine, especially with my wife, given where and how I learned the language. I realized a couple years into the marriage that this was a real turn-off for her, not just sexually but in terms of her basic respect for me as a man and a provider. Now she speaks Japanese, and I speak English. I’ve also realized that it’s important to her that I be decisive about matters – whether sex or household decisions – rather than verbalizing my uncertainties, or if I do verbalize them, that I finally act decisively and then don’t express regrets or second thoughts. I truly believe that too many of us who went to Japan as English teachers and who never had much success with American women tend to have passive, overly gentle personalities, and I think that once the exotic flavor of sex with a foreigner wears off, Japanese women find this character type as unsexy as American women do.
The key, I think, is learning to act like a man, even if you don’t really feel like the stereotypical masculine type. In other words, master the art of tatemae, and let your wife see that you can fulfill the role of a man, even if it’s somewhat at odds with your personality (do it long enough and eventually it will start feeling like honne). This doesn’t mean being a jerk – my work-related stress means that I often get irritable, and this is something I work hard to suppress. What it means is stating and acting on your expectations or desires or decisions with respect for your wife as a human being but not whining about them or about your wife’s reluctance to comply with or acquiesce to them.
What’s odd about the past seven or eight years, however, is that I feel emotionally less dependent upon my wife. I think she – and many Japanese – prefer this; in the initial years of our marriage, I believe she found my affection and, to be perfectly frank, emotional dependence stifling. Now I’m rather detached emotionally – not in my treatment of her but in my own handling of my emotional health. Part of this is the result of the earlier infidelity, which did kill something in me, and part of it is due to the fact that I am willing to admit to myself that I probably would not marry her if I had to do it over again for a variety of reasons (she may feel the same). She knows, though, that I love her, that I will treat her with respect, and that I will provide for her and our child; at the same time, she knows that I stand on my own two feet and that I would be just fine without her. And I think that makes me more attractive to her as an object of sexual affection.
Two more quick points:
1. I love Japan and get back as often as we can, but let’s face it: In terms of infrastructure for marital sex, Japan sucks. The whole country is designed exceptionally well for pre- and extra-, but everything conspires against a healthy marital sex life in Japan.
2. Toss the futon and get a bed. Preferably not one of those low platform beds but one that’s about waist high. I’m convinced that moving to a fairly tall bad has contributed toward at least 20% of our improved sex life as a couple. Futons are the death of regular, spontaneous, creative sex. My wife likes to be pulled, pushed, and turned every which way during intercourse, and you just can’t do that on a futon.
Hello everyone,
I came across this site through a google search and just wanted to say that I’m glad that I’m not the only one with a sexless marriage life sort of speak. I’m married to a Japanese woman as well by the way. At first I thought it was just our relationship but after reading all these posts, I feel somewhat relieved but still sadden by the fact that my sex life as well is diminishing by the year and it’s taking a toll on our relationship.
Just like everyone else, the sex was great in the beginning and frequent. Then came marriage but the sex was still there. It wasn’t until after our son was born things started to change. Most of time when I want it, All I would hear are the same excuses everyone else mentions (tired, Pms, headache, don’t feel like it etc..etc…) Didn’t seem to bother her before when she was about six months pregnant, coming home from work after an hour or so on the train and later in the same evening, having sex. But now, it seems like the list of excuses gets longer and longer. I expected the excuses form her after the pregnancy for a while but my son is now ten. I think the pregnancy really did a number on her and I hear the same thing from other people that I know who are married or were married to a Japanese woman, the sex just disappears after having kids. A few guys I know like to phrase this as “Mommy Mode” or “Mommy Hat”. Meaning, their main role in the marriage now is to be mommy and pretty much forget about being a wife.
Sad to say but If I knew things were going to turn out like this I probably would have never gotten married. I had more sex when I was single and didn’t even have to masturbate. You would think that being married, sex wouldn’t be an issue seeing how you always had a partner, your wife.
I don’t know how much more I can put up with this or what else to try. I’ve tried everything from talking, lingerie, toys, having the kid stay over at a friend’s house a night. It just seems hopeless right now.
Mike,
Get divorced now. Don’t waste years of your life like I did, trapped in that state.
Get out. Find someone who makes you happy. Life is short.
Don’t wait for it to get better, it never does.
I’ve been there…. brother, I have been there.
sexless mike,
I could relate to everything you wrote.
I think you have to look at how much you value your relationship with your son. If you were to get out of your marriage i.e. divorce and stay in Japan would you be able to see him? Knowing Japanese divorce culture probably not.
When I was first in Japan in ’91 (I live in the UK at the moment but am returning there very soon) I met this middle-aged, married gaijin who told me that he always had a girlfriend, and that if it wasn’t for the GFs he would have got out of the marriage long ago because after the kids were born the wife just didn’t want sex any more. I remember passing some kind of judgement to myself thinking he was wrong to do what he was doing.
Well, here I am, a middle-aged, married gaijin who over the last nine and a half years have put myself through sheer hell because of a total lack of intimacy with my wife. I mean a TOTAL lack. Not just sex. I mean everything: holding hands; cuddles; hugs; good morning, good night, goodbye and see you later kisses; saying good morning and good night…I can initiate all I want and she will reciprocate to a degree, BUT I just felt the relationship was soooo one-sided that I have just given up. Basically, if I don’t make the effort, nothing will happen.
Anyway, in May this year I got myself a Japanese girlfriend here in London. My life has changed! I feel alive again. I feel happy. I can stay in the marriage and take responsibility for my daughter. And this is what I am going to continue to do. I NEED sex and I appreciate just how important it is that I get it. I am no longer guilty about getting my needs met. I feel healthy now – before, I was depressed and suffered from a load of physical ailments. Hell, my wife isn’t going to take care of my needs, so I have to take responsibility for it myself.
Arnu, your story is fascinating and I hope you don’t mind me pointing out a few things along the way. Why did you get a Japanese girlfriend in London and not an English girlfriend? Your mention of physical ailments is interesting as was that way I was as well (and depressed) but after leaving the country I immediately felt better. Can you give some detail? I don’t blame my ailments and depression on Japan – that would be silly – but rather see that they were the result of how I was seeing the country and the life I had there.
kayumochi,
Thanks as always for your comments.
I was working from home teaching expat Japanese living in London. As I was working 10 or 12 hours a day, Japanese were the only people I came into contact with. I mentioned before about the wife’s refusal to get a job (even a part-time one) so being self-employed I had to get the hours to make a decent wage. The girl friend was a student! Shock horror! After 14 years of avoiding that situation in Japan I finally succumbed here in the UK. However, in terms of attraction, I find East Asian women very attractive. I’m 44, and when I look for British women of about my age I am not attracted to them at all. On top of that, I just didn’t have the hours in the day to meet up with anyone!
Then 6 months ago the business really started slowing down due to the recession – for every 7 families returning to Japan, only 1 was replacing them. Bad for business; great for love life. I suddenly had lots of time during the day. I even see the GF after lessons in the evening.
In March this year (before the GF situation began) I guess I finally cracked with my wife’s refusal to work and the stress it was putting on me having to do all the extra hours to get by. I was coming home at 10.30pm after teaching at students’ homes and often there was no meal waiting for me, let alone an “okaeri”. One night I came back to a mountain of pasta that had been cooked 4 hours previously and had dried up all the sauce. I expressed my annoyance but was just ignored. Off she went to bed refusing to talk. In the shower I thought “that’s it! I have to talk this out” I went to the bedroom and again she didn’t want to engage. In a fit of frustration I picked up a pillow from the bed and slammed it down on the bed. The corner flicked the back of her head. She sat up and said I had assaulted her and called the cops. Within 5 mins there were 6 police officers in the flat. I was arrested for what’s known as “common assault” here in the UK and spent the night in the cells. I wasn’t charged, just cautioned. When I came back home the next morning I was a changed man. I knew there was nothing left in the relationship with my wife – I just didn’t want to know. We have a daughter with whom I am very close to. I can’t leave, it would be just too much for her. I decided to stay, but promised myself a few changes. The GF started a month later.
I come back late most nights now despite not having much work on, disappear for long stretches of the afternoon with no explanation and my wife never ever questions me. Earlier in the year I had said that if she wasn’t going to have sex I would either pay for it or get a GF. I did the latter.
I feel great now. The GF is a lovely woman and there is a real closeness and intimacy there. In fact, let’s call it love! She’s from Kansai and will return in April next year. If it continues so be it. I hope so. If it doesn’t then I will look for someone else.
When I got back to the UK in 2005 I had already been living the 10-hour a day scenario in Osaka for about 6 years so I was burned to a crisp. I started getting loads of things wrong with me – prostate probs, kidney probs, asthma,depression/mood swings… I suppose I felt more able to get treated here rather than in Japan so set about trying to fix it all. After a year in therapy, and constant urging by the therapist to get into sport, I took up swimming in Jan 09 which I now do about 4 days a week. The best thing I have done for a long long time. The benefits have been huge.
I feel so energetic at the moment. The best I have felt for ages. Physically fit and emotionally very happy and balanced.
Sorry to ramble on…
Arnu, reading your story I wonder if your wife is manipulating you … driving you into the arms of another woman or into a jail cell so she will get to show her face of innocence to the world when she decides to leave you.
Anru, I read your story and I saw myself…
I would explode as well from frustration, but I never directed it AT HER. I broke chairs, keyboards, all kinds of stuff. Of course, she admonished me for it, as showing ANY EMOTION at all is forbidden in Japan.
I worked all day and came home to nothing. I was happiest when I was with my GF and I just couldn’t keep up the pretense.
Kayumochi makes a point, Japanese women are very manipulative. They take great pride in being able to control you. My ex tried to use sex to manipulate me… she said, “I will feel like sex if you wash the dishes..”
Yeah right. I work two jobs, she is at home all day, and I am washing the dishes while she watches Oprah and Dr Phil? I don’t f@cking think so…
Kayumochi and Heinrich,
Thanks for the comments.
Yes, she’s very much the manipulator. Her refusal to work here in the UK is what I have labelled as “sieging”. She knew I couldn’t possibly keep up the 10-12 hour days forever. She knew that the cost of living here in London is astronomical and that the only way out was to either get a job or go back to Japan. If she had worked we could have stayed here. So I feel like I am being sieged out of the UK. Kind of starved out. I have no choice but to leave if I want to stay with my 6 year old daughter,and hang on to my savings.
My wife really is a huge advocate of the great relationship I have with my daughter. It’s in her own interest. She saw me when wife No. 1 wouldn’t let me see my first 2 kids – the pain and emotional torment I went through. She knows damn well that I’d never choose knowingly to put myself in a situation where I wouldn’t be able to see my daughter, i.e. I’m gonna be sticking around no matter what happens to take responsibility of my kid.
I saw the GF yesterday evening, this evening, and tomorrow we’re spending the whole day together. All this while the wife does the rounds of her obachan cronies saying her goodbyes.
Reading the stories, I feel very sympathetic towards you guys. If things are as bad as you say they are, you must have gone through a lot of pain and anguish. I really do hope that you can find a solution that brings you and your families happiness.
@Heinrich While I really do feel your pain, I’m no so sure I can agree with your view that it is forbidden to show emotion in Japan. I see people in Japan (especially younger generations) openly holding hands and kissing often in the city and I know that, while displaying emotion is certainly more restrained than in other countries, it is definitely not ‘forbidden’ in any way. In my opinion, it is a cultural trait that tends towards the avoidance of conflict, which is very different from Western societies where (very generally) people are more open and prone to free exchange of differing opinions.
As for manipulation, I fail to see why Japanese women more than women of other nationalities would manipulate their partners. Have you any more information or surveys on this?
As I said, I am sympathetic to your situation and am not trying to rile you up, I just think some of your statements are too extreme and misleading. Apologies in advance if I’ve offended you.
Sorry but please let me interrupt with irrelevant topic.
I know a japanese guy for nearly one year(on the internet and I’m a non-japanese). I haven’t never met him yet. Months ago he’d like to meet me but I stopped him as he isn’t single ‘yet’. Long ago he ‘admited’ that he has a wife but in a hard trouble stage, in conclusion, he said something like he’d like to finish the trouble which I don’t get the clearly meaning because of his poor English. He’s been writing e-mails to me nearly daily until now and one day he said he’d like to see me if we can communicate happily and it’s possible to take a few years for that meeting. He talked nothing about his wife after that. Long ago I asked him he said he prefers to keep it private than to tell me. He just said he likes present relationship.
I think a Japanese guy isn’t good communicator plus his poor ability of English. As long as I know him he isn’t a playful person and he runs a law business in the South of Japan.
Now I’m trying to understand what Japanese thinks and probably some of you can help me.
Do you think is it worth to keep this relationship?
Great article on why women have sex:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/sep/28/sex-women-relationships-tanya-gold
The book might be useful!
This is a great thread and there are a lot of thoughtful responses and earnest questions here. The insight from gaijin women married to Japanese men is rare indeed.
As someone who has lived in Japan more than 20 years and been married twice, both times to a Japanese woman, and have numerous Japanese women friends both married and unmarried, I wouldn’t say that Japanese women are any more manipulative than any woman from anywhere. All societies teach girls in one way or another that they have to catch a man while they’re young so they’ll have someone to take care of them when they’re old.
What’s missing is what you’re supposed to do with him once you bag him in order to ensure he’ll stick around and follow through, and gaijin men need to understand that Japanese women don’t have the slightest intention of feeding the gaijin fish they ever catch. They just don’t get that refusing sex is a rejection of the man, which is his biggest fear, and it’s only natural that he’ll want to deal with it by abandoning the woman, which is her biggest fear. The gods are funny that way.
The truly sad part of the equation is that it’s way too easy to get trapped into a situation where children, lack of money or other unfortunate condition prevents a divorce. Fear of failure, or even fear of starting over can be factors, too.
A woman using sex as a method of behavioral control shows up in TV shows, movies, literature and stand-up comic routines everywhere. It’s a staple of conversation at pretty much any happy hour, dinner party or cocktail party. It’s one of the saddest states of the human condition. Having said that, I know that on rare occasions men can be guilty of it too. It’s not necessarily the woman who controls the sex; the one who doesn’t want it is in charge.
I don’t think over-generalizing about Japanese people is really fair, because I have witnessed so many forms of behavior here that buck every stereotype non-Japanese and especially Japanese can cook up. (I’m convinced that the proper translation of “ware ware nihonjin wa…” is really “my personal opinion is…”) And I know of no gaijin who ever got what they wanted by trying to out-Japanese the Japanese, regardless of how great their language skills were.
But I admit that all of the unhappy guys married to Japanese women on this thread have the same specific problem that virtually all of my gaijin male friends married to Japanese women have. Me too.
Perhaps it’s related to what I call the danna-san complex. So many Japanese women say they just want a “danna-san” to “take care of me”, and if you know anything about the Japanese geisha culture, part of the deal is that the danna who keeps a geisha isn’t supposed to expect sex. If you’re rich and egocentric and just want the status of keeping a pretty, interesting and infinitely desirable woman on call for clever conversation and green tea for the sake of envious friends and enemies, it’s great. But if you’re a typical heterosexual male who thinks that sex is an integral part of a healthy body, mind, soul and relationship you’re pretty much shit out of luck. Either suck it up and take it, or get a lover who respects your physical and emotional needs, or get the hell out.
Denying your spouse sexual gratification, even if you yourself don’t feel like dealing with it, is just as much a betrayal of the wedding vows as playing around. And one most definitely leads to the other. Morality only extends so far, and everyone has a breaking point.
The happiest gaijin males in Japan I know are those who married once, divorced after the thousandth rejection, then declared they’d never marry again. The bad part about it (or good, depending on how you look at it) is they have to change girlfriends every 2 years, because that’s about as long as the woman will feign the pretense of a healthy, sweet, loving and sexual relationship with a guy before she insists on coming clean with the ultimatum of marriage.
To any gaijin contemplating marrying a Japanese woman, I say if you ever hear her utter the phrase, “I just want someone to take care of me,” BEWARE because it’s code for “I want a free and easy life to do whatever I want whenever I want, while you slave away at a job all hours to make it happen.” Otherwise, do it at least once. Everybody has to put their hand on a hot stove in order to know better.
To @Whitelove… It’s not irrelevant if you intend to start, or are thinking about having, a sexual relationship with the guy. But I don’t see what his being Japanese has to do with it.
Japanese men want the same thing all men want, whether they can have it or not: Freedom from (or at least the hope of not) being beaten down by a life of rejection inside a loveless sham of a marriage. It seems like that’s what you represent to him on some level. Perhaps just psychologically.
Maybe I’m old-fashioned, but I don’t see how just sending emails back and forth on the Internet without ever having met in person can be characterized as a “relationship”? I think the proper term is pen pals.